- Duration: 45 min
- Platform: zoom
- Source: Read.ai 01K4NAT05V7AVAY31KVXZVH1CV (https://app.read.ai/analytics/meetings/01K4NAT05V7AVAY31KVXZVH1CV)
Transcript
[Michael Houck]: Hey Kelley, how are you? Hey, good. [Kelley Louise]: How are you guys? Good. I don’t know why my background is not working. [Michael Houck]: It looks like I’ve been very blurry. I don’t know. Very interesting. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: It looks like you’re in 2005 Grand Theft Auto. [Michael Houck]: Hey, maybe I am. 6 is coming out soon. You never know. Nice to meet you, Kelley. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Nice to meet you, too. [Andrew Safranko]: Andrew messaged me and said he’s had difficulties. [Steve Spurgat]: Hey, Steve, how you doing, man? [Michael Houck]: Hey, y’all. How’s it going? Good. Good to see you, brother. How was Burning Man? [Steve Spurgat]: It was good. Yeah. Yeah. Kelley, Kelley was there as well. Kelley, how was your, was this your first time, Kelley, or how’d you enjoy it? [Kelley Louise]: No, this was my third time. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: So not my first rodeo. [Michael Houck]: It was good. [Kelley Louise]: It was, I don’t know, Steve asked me to go and I’m like, when your boss says, let’s go to Burning Man, go to Burning Man. [Michael Houck]: Went in Black Rock City, as they say. Have you been, Michael? I have not been. It’s on my list, but this year had some other priorities right now, but I do want to get out there maybe next year. [Steve Spurgat]: When you’re ready, our camp is really good for new people. We have a whole orientation do we have like a whole education that we help pre pre playa. [Michael Houck]: Oh, let’s let’s do it, man. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Okay, I will, you know, I’ll take you know, by like March. Sounds good. [Michael Houck]: I’ll give you an early heads up. So we got time to plan. [Steve Spurgat]: Perfect. Okay, cool. [Michael Houck]: Well, we got a big group on this call. So I want to just let Andrew squared from our side, give give some interest for you guys. And maybe if you you guys give intros to them as well. We can just quickly go around and do that before we dive in. [Steve Spurgat]: Sure. Should we go first? Y’all go first. [Andrew Safranko]: Why don’t you guys go and then we’ll segue into the content. Sure. [Steve Spurgat]: I’ll kick off. So I’m Steve. I’m the managing partner of BigHuman. So I’ve been overseeing the operations of the business for 13 of our 15 years, almost. And, uh, I sort of get involved in, in, in strategy, both for clients, but, um, obviously for the studio itself, um, As, uh, as well as help usher in new business. Um, there is someone else he’s out of town today, Andrew, who we work with, who like he’s director of product and strategy, but also works more closely with me on new business. He actually won’t know. Necessarily be involved in the day-to-day on this as much as Kelley and I, because he’s less marketing, but you may see him here and there because he does care about the actual leads that are coming in. So that’s me in a nutshell. Kelley, do you want to introduce yourself? [Michael Houck]: If you want to add Andrew to the channel too on Slack, I don’t know if he would want to be in there, but feel free to. Should be open. Actually, not yet. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Not yet, because that channel is going to be I assume that channel is going to be a very, very busy as it should be. [Steve Spurgat]: I don’t want to distract people who are not involved in some of that messaging. I probably will involve Russ, add Russ fairly soon. Cause I think he, he and I will be involved a lot in brainstorming some of the topics for, for, for the posts. But I don’t want to involve Andrew yet. Cause he’s, he’s as busy enough. It is. [Michael Houck]: And so let’s hold off on that for now. [Steve Spurgat]: Sounds good. [Michael Houck]: Cool. [Kelley Louise]: And I am Kelley. I’m the director of marketing at Big Human. I have been full time since January, but freelancing since about a year ago, actually, Steve, which is a little milestone that crept up quickly. Um, so, um, big human has traditionally not had a marketing department. It existed in more of what I would call like a content arm of the company. Um, so I came on board to help support and foster the content that we’re doing for clients. Um, everything from like UX and copy design as well as SEO, but then also expand more into the social media ads and growth. Landscape as well. So we’ve been building everything a bit block by block, both for our clients as well as for ourselves. But all things in the marketing space is definitely up my alley. Sweet. Andrew, you want to go? [Michael Houck]: No, I go first and then Andrew can segue into the content. [Andrew Cheng]: So I am part of the Andrew. I guess there might be Andrew event But I am the content ops manager. I am responsible for day-to-day operations. So when Andrew creates content or social posts, I’ll be the one responsible for scheduling them as well as logging on to any X accounts that I can do some engagements with. So I’m excited to work with you all. And just a heads up, I do have some technical difficulties going on. Like I keep, I had to run downstairs during this call just to make sure this works. So if I drop off, I’ll try to hop right back on. [Steve Spurgat]: No worries. We’ve all been there. [Andrew Safranko]: Cool, and I will segue. Michael, can you give me access to share my screen, please? Yeah, let me do that. [Michael Houck]: Okay, cool. Yeah, and Steve and Kelley, just for a heads up, Andrew is probably going to lead most of this call. He’ll give sort of a TLDR, the purpose is just to go deeper on some of the stuff, Kelley, that you shared in the intake form. Thank you for doing that. So you guys will talk through some of those things that came up that Andrew wants to go deeper on. And then at the we’ll circle back around and I’ll cover next steps and getting started and all that. [Kelley Louise]: Great. One thing I will flag as well, Steve, I had slacked you over some of the stuff I put in the intake form. I don’t know that you’ve seen it yet. So if anything I shared is different from what Steve thinks, like it’s partially just because we’re like aligning on this stuff at the same time as well. So like look at everything from that through a Kelley lens. Just FYI. [Steve Spurgat]: And something I’ll add to Andrew S is that our Andrew also has a rich collection of Nike shoes. Beautiful. [Andrew Safranko]: I think he even has that same one that’s above your head. [Steve Spurgat]: The one that’s second from the right on the top. [Andrew Safranko]: Color? Which color? It’s like the red and black one. [Steve Spurgat]: Oh, right there? [Andrew Safranko]: Yeah, I think he has that one. Yeah, everyone’s got their Jordan 1s. [Steve Spurgat]: I have nowhere else to put them, to be honest. [Andrew Safranko]: This is not supposed to be in the background. This is my wife, actually. [Steve Spurgat]: She just did this one day. So I’m Andrew, as you can see on the screen. [Andrew Safranko]: My career started in tech and actually a bit of design, too. I worked pretty closely with the head of design at IBM for a couple of years, actually. We ran design thinking sessions, which was a lot of fun for a lot of our clients. And then I went into product roles and then obviously worked with design teams as a result. So went through a lot of the things you guys do and everything was just a lot of like, oh yeah moments for me as I Read through the website and the work you guys have done. So super excited to work with you all. So yeah, been in tech for quite a while and always was a writer on the side and had the opportunity to officially move into like a full-time writing role. So I work very closely with Michael and the team here. And then just a little bit more about myself. First and foremost, thank you for sending over, Kelley, the information. This was super helpful. You’ll see as I scroll here, as Michael mentioned, the point of this is now to kind of go through and get a bit of a perspective and foundation built in and around the contents, what I will write, what I’ll ask you for, what you’ll share with me, et cetera. So a lot of what I have here I’ve pulled from the documentation as well as the intake form that was originally filled out. But these calls are great for us to be able to have the actual conversation and put some more context around sort of what you shared. So ideally what will happen, you see the questions here, there’s a few more we’ll go through. Whatever are on the top of your minds in and around these questions, happily I’ll take, but know that like this will be an iterative process. And so whatever we speak about today easily can shift a month from now, right? But for all intents and purposes, why don’t we get started? So I gathered from the intake form, the primary goal was kind of conversions with clients and reach with clients. Just want to confirm that and maybe even further, if you guys want to dive further, like what was sort of the ultimate goal in working with us and I guess getting more formalized content out to the masses? [Steve Spurgat]: I can answer that first and then Kelley can fill in. Any gaps. We’re an interesting business where a qualified lead is not only somebody that could use our services, but it’s when they would need those services. We have a lot of one-off projects, or at least even long-term engagements typically start with one-off projects. Being top of mind for people who already know us, just for when they need something, they’re thinking of us first, or for those who don’t necessarily need us in that moment, but they’re constantly reminded of us, is really key to our business. Even a lot of our current clients, we break this down every quarter, I don’t know if it’s memorized, but it’s maybe 30 to 40% of our current clients are people who have come back to us multiple times because they’ve worked with us before. Sometimes it’s just so great that they remember us. Other times it’s people that we’re checking in with on a regular basis. And, or we, you know, at some point we did newsletters or we’ll do, we invite a lot of people to our holiday party. And just last year we had one who we worked with years ago who was like, oh yeah, I forgot about you guys. He keeps sending us a lot of business. And so, yes, the end goal is leads and qualified leads that convert to business. That doesn’t mean that all of the content you’re creating needs to be necessarily like transactional or say like, hey, come work with us now, 20% off. It’s not like nothing like that. I think a lot of it is still thought leadership it’s still brand building, it’s portfolio work when it’s available, but having a constant stream of interesting content hopefully will increase our reach, but also remind those who, when they need us, will reach out to us. Cool, yeah, makes sense. Is there anything on the end of that, Kelley? Yeah, I totally agree. [Kelley Louise]: with all of that. I think while leads might be the goal, the tactic isn’t sell, sell, sell. It’s producing interesting content that keeps us top of mind. I also think we are guilty as an agency of doing really great work for clients, but then everything for ourselves often is end of the to-do list. It’s just surfacing more of what’s happening behind the scenes and putting that out into the world. It’s really interesting work. We have really interesting clients. We have a very opinionated team, which I think is great in terms of having POV on different topics and really establishing ourselves and leaders in each of the verticals that we’re in. And then lastly, just like an underlying goal is that I’m caught isn’t that while Big Human hasn’t always been a full service or a marketing agency, we do have those capabilities. The first place that someone’s going to look at us, if they’re considering social media for their own work, is they’re going to look at our own social media as well. And so really making sure that what we’re producing for ourselves is up to par for what we would produce for clients as well. And right now it is like non-existent. So just having more of an active presence there and building momentum and an audience around that. [Andrew Safranko]: Would you say that’s more of a secondary goal or is that still kind of a focus point? [Kelley Louise]: I think that will come through by creating interesting content and just like we’re not posting right now at all and so I want to make sure that start posting, it’s not like, oh, look at everything we post. You should work with us to do your own social media. That’s kind of just like we’re top of mind because of social. But if someone were to do a vibe check, if they’re considering us for social, they’re not necessarily going to try to track down our clients. They’re going to look at our accounts first. Yeah, that makes sense. [Andrew Safranko]: That’s what everyone does, right? They want to see how active are you and do you exist? Got it. Okay. On top of that, real quick, then any secondary goals out of this, aside from you guys have mentioned already, anything sort of like, I don’t know, more, maybe lower key? [Steve Spurgat]: It’s all, it’s all tied together, but just an overall increasing our, you know, our, our follower of follower counts on social, it’s all tied to that. [Andrew Safranko]: Yeah, for sure. Definitely. And increasing reach. [Steve Spurgat]: Okay. I don’t know. Are there goals that companies like ours should have that we’re not thinking of [Andrew Safranko]: I would say, I mean, from what I’ve gathered, the words you’ve won, the work that the client, even the client list, right? There’s things there that I think I would think other companies like yours would strive for if they haven’t already achieved. So I think that’s good. If anything what what I love seeing and this is sort of what I talk about with clients as well is the how like how did you do that right how did you work with how did you work with Netflix like what was that like right like just when you see the logos the first question is always like well how the heck did that happen right so maybe even just and obviously there’s always sensitivity and sort of lines drawn in terms of how much you can share however I do feel like there’s always great stuff storytelling from that and and you know the almost behind the scenes, if you will. So I would say something like that is always a nice little goal and definitely sets you apart, definitely creates a level of uniqueness to the firm as well. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I plus one that in terms of like strategy and content formats and post types that we can experiment with. I think high level goal wise, Steve and Kelley, I think you guys are spot on. I agree. It’s the should be more about a brand play. Obviously, we want leads, but it’s not about how can we, you know, what’s our click funnel, right? To get them through. This is about building the brand, making it something people want to aspire to work with you guys and keeping that with how they associate the brand to be really, really high in their mind. So I think that’s top priority. Obviously followers as well, but again, we don’t want to be too transactional and too cringy. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: You know, I’ll give you a secondary goal, but I’ll, I’ll preface it by a challenge that you’re going to possibly have working with us. It’s probably a challenge you have a lot. And that is Russ and I both, Russ more so than me is very particular about thought leadership content. [Steve Spurgat]: And it’s sounding like we’re the smartest people in the world to the point where if it’s not super interesting, we just don’t post at all. And I don’t know if that’s ever a hurdle you have to get over with people on thought leadership. I think it’s going to be easier now because we can maybe be AI I assisted, we can look at product hunt and maybe just get perspectives of new things that are launching. Like, I think there are ways to, to, to do it, to have high volume and still quality of thought leadership, but it’s, it’s definitely going to be a challenge. Um, and so the goal that’s tied to that is Russ’s own Twitter account went from like 30,000 to, I think it’s like 140 or 150 now. Um, and That first 30,000 is a lot higher quality than the subsequent a hundred thousand. Cause the most recent a hundred thousand is because he did this vine coin thing. And he has a bunch of like a bunch of coin bros that are now following him or meme coin bros that are following him that are not qualified leads. But the first 30,000 is the fact that he has a high follower account, I think is impressive. He doesn’t do really anything to promote big human on his own Twitter for the challenges that I preceded this by around, like he wants to make sure it’s really good. He and I talked about you guys actually a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, look, we need to find the things that you’re willing to retweet and from big, you know, a big human into your own account. And we came up with a few examples on our own, particularly around like some portfolio work that we’re excited about. But, I think if we frame that as a goal, finding thought leadership content or any type of content that Russ thinks is cool enough that he will also retweet. And we can even, in some of these chat, work backwards from that and be like, Russ, and I can drive a lot of this so that people aren’t intimidated by Russ, but just be like, Russ, what would you retweet and what would you share? Let’s just start there and then work backwards into, started with Big Human, retweet by Russ, um, so that, uh, so that we can get some of that juice from his followers. Yeah, definitely not a unique challenge. [Michael Houck]: I would say definitely something we have seen with, with other folks we’ve worked with as well. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: The easiest way to always get around that is obviously engagement on, on Russ’s part as much as he’s able to provide, but even just like, you know, if he’s getting his sources of information and therefore These are sort of where I think things are going. [Michael Houck]: These are the trends that I’m seeing. This is like what I want us to be cultivating within our content. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: We want to know what those sources are so that we can pull from the same source material, at least get inspired by the same stuff so that it’s exciting to him and sort of on that brand for him. [Steve Spurgat]: So the more we can get from that, from him and from you guys in general, the better for sure. [Andrew Safranko]: Yep. Awesome. Cool. And then sort of on those lines, What are some things you think you’d like to see ideally for it to feel like this is becoming successful? I mean, the obvious one that everyone always says is leads. But like, I feel like you guys probably have a much more deeper insight in this. Like, what are your thoughts around? If this is successful? What do you see? What do you envision happening? [Steve Spurgat]: I mean, I guess there’s also just the the people who aren’t discovering us through social but are going to for validation. And so, I mean, Kelley alluded to this earlier, like we’re pitching somebody at marketing and they’re going to look at our own work. I think a lot of people are going to be looking at, I mean, everyone looks at Instagram and that we’re still managing and we’re very particular about that from a design perspective. I don’t know that many people are looking at LinkedIn pages. I think enough are looking at Twitter maybe to make a difference for validation. So just making sure that holistically, if you go there and just skim through these pages, it looks like we’re interesting, smart experts that you want to work with. [Kelley Louise]: I think our current audience tends to be Instagram first. So to Steve’s point, that works in our favor, but we’re not necessarily reaching someone who’s X first in their social media consumption. How do we tap into that audience as well? There’s a lot that goes for like when someone’s obsessed with an account, they’re like, I love everything you say. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Like that’s a really cool anecdote and case study to come out of just producing quality content. [Michael Houck]: Kelley, it would be really valuable if you could, maybe you guys already have this, but if you could pull some specific people or like avatars that you guys have of who those Instagram followers are, that we can get an example of who’s resonating with the brand on one platform, and then we can adapt that to sort of where we think how that will apply to a similar type of person, but probably a little different because it’s a different platform, different consumption style for X. [Kelley Louise]: Yeah, let me put some thought to that. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: But yes. Cool. [Andrew Safranko]: Okay, moving on. So again, the document, just to be clear, we’re not really getting leads from Instagram, it’s like only a validation. [Steve Spurgat]: We get maybe, we get like job inquiries from Instagram, cause we have a lot of designers that follow us. But it’s like, it’s very heavy on the validation. And I don’t know that we’ve ever gotten a lead through Instagram. Okay. Okay. [Michael Houck]: So more on the design designer side rather than the potential customer side. Yeah. [Steve Spurgat]: Or even if like, even if people are coming to us, not for design, they’re coming for product strategy or engineering. They may go to Instagram just to get a feel for our work. And even people who want us for engineering, they’re often drawn to us because of our great design. I only bring this up because the follower cohort or persona on Instagram is different than what we’re thinking about for these other two, where we’re more focused on lead gen. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. Okay. Well, that in mind, Andrew, when we design the strategy doc after this. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Sounds good. Okay. [Andrew Safranko]: So you all did a great job in providing a target audience. So you can Read that here. I won’t Read it to you. But if there’s anything beyond what you see here that you think would fit with target audience, feel free to let me know. [Steve Spurgat]: Yeah. And these founder CEOs, these are often like early stage I had them in two audiences, like high growth startups and then also established brands. [Kelley Louise]: Yeah. [Steve Spurgat]: But even high growth, it’s like the ideal is like they just closed their series A, you know, and they’re like, what do I do now with this money? Right. Or they’re like in a seed stage and they’re trying to build their 1.0 before they hire a team. So like pretty early stage. So high growth, but also these are like pre-growth. These are like finding product market fit. I need help. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. That’s a pretty good audience there. [Andrew Safranko]: And then you also gave me a bit of what the audience comes to you for currently. These are more broad. So I would love to get more context from you. So these are sort of what we’re given, but I know there’s probably a lot more specifics here. So can you riff a little bit on that? [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: What are they typically coming to you for in terms of content? You want like the specific services? [Andrew Safranko]: Anything, to be honest, whether it’s services, ideas, trends. I mean, you all have done a lot of different types of work. So I feel like you’ve probably set the bar for a lot of different things. [Steve Spurgat]: I mean, we’re much more builders than we are, like, you know, we’ll get like giving a trend strategy. We obviously do like marketing strategy and product strategy, stuff like that. But people are usually coming to us because they need, they need output in a way of product design, engineering, marketing execution, as well as strategy. Our core disciplines are product design, which is visual design UX, branding, engineering, and engineering is web and mobile. The product management slash product strategy, which works closely with design UX. And then marketing. And marketing for us is still heavy on like the sort of content SEO side of things. We are doing more and more social, but we’re like obviously not doing anything on X for our clients. It’s still like a lot of Instagram and some TikTok. That’s like a new area, like a new area for us. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Cool. [Andrew Safranko]: Okay. And do you think there’s anything that they would come to you for outside of services? Like in terms of just maybe what you have to say, or like the, the experience that you have? [Steve Spurgat]: Um, I mean, I used to have like, there’s this journalist who’d reach out to us all the time wanting for things that we would give sometimes, I guess in terms of what we have to say. What we have to say usually translates into a service. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Just hang out and give a lot of free advice. Yeah, that makes sense. [Andrew Safranko]: A lot of it’s tied to the services, for sure. [Steve Spurgat]: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if this is where you’re going, but there is value in people coming to us and wanting us to speak at conferences and giving quotes on things, stuff like that, which we don’t really pursue a lot often, but it’s obviously good for studio marketing. [Andrew Safranko]: So that’s not happening now. [Steve Spurgat]: We do submit, we do submit and win a lot of awards, but even that is not something that, you know, people are necessarily discovering us through social. [Andrew Safranko]: Okay, cool. I think, I got where you’re coming from I think the services speak for what they are. [Steve Spurgat]: I do like, I mean, I know that a lot of what you’re going to be doing is interacting with other accounts and those accounts are potential leads. There could be times that we’re offering insights on what people are doing, you know, a new AI app launches that’s, You know, similar to one that we have built. You know, do we offer commentary about how great their UX is or is not? I don’t know. Yeah. I guess maybe stuff like that. [Andrew Safranko]: OK. [Steve Spurgat]: Yeah, we can definitely explore that, see where it lands. [Andrew Safranko]: Makes sense. See what everyone’s comfort level is and what they want to do Mm hmm. [Michael Houck]: That’s the type of stuff where we’ll need as much expertise as we can get from you guys, too. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: So, yeah, those are like very specific. You almost have to like post links like, hey, anything to say about this, about this, about this. [Andrew Safranko]: Oh, yeah. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: And we just give you direct quotes. Yeah. And I’ll do that, too. [Andrew Safranko]: Right. Like my role will be scouring, researching, you know, finding things I think might be interesting for you all. Like the goal is to give you things that you can just look at like, oh, yeah, I can talk to you forever about this, right? Not something that you have to like sit there for hours and wonder like, okay, what’s the answer to this? [Steve Spurgat]: So, yeah. Okay. [Andrew Safranko]: And then in that same vein, so in terms of content pillars and off the top of your head, what are some things that you would love to make sure we focus on in terms of topics, ideas, you name it? What are some things you’re looking to kind of… [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Um, so like anything, anything new and technology. [Steve Spurgat]: So like a new, new hardware, a new release of Apple vision pro a new, um, release of any type of device, any new engineering framework, anything new and design, you know, a, something cool that, you know, maybe Figma is doing, that’s probably less interesting, but I’m just a bit falling here, but, um, so like we used to have this theme, which I haven’t shared with in a while, but it was sort of like the mission around our labs division. And it was around what’s next, like always thinking about and looking at what’s next. I think that that plays a lot. To our, our thought leadership, like what’s next in any one of our disciplines, anything in hardware that impacts our disciplines. Do you think it’s like a futurist perspective? It is but a lot of I think a lot of I think a lot of futurist content is perceived as bullshit. It is. I think we’re more practical than that because I look at a lot of these futurist people and I think they have zero credibility. I think they live, you know, sometimes they just kind of live in the clouds. So I think as long as we’re not overly theoretical in that, we’re thinking about, you know, and things that are a bit more practical. I don’t want to be like boring. I just want to make sure that if we’re talking about anything in the future, it’s not so super nebulous. Yeah, fair enough. [Andrew Safranko]: Are there any industries? [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Or pretentious. [Steve Spurgat]: I think a lot of futurist content is like a little pretentious. Oh, yeah. [Andrew Safranko]: They think they know everything. Any industries that kind of pop up? I mean, all of this can be applied to almost anything. [Steve Spurgat]: industry, but are there any that sort of pique any of your interests that we may want to focus on as well? Um, so obviously, like anything in a category of tech, I mean, so if you think about subcategories of tech, there’s anything that is a, a that people are signing up for. So that’s what we call digital products. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: I mentioned anything that’s like, what’s next? [Steve Spurgat]: So that’s things around AI and new devices and AR, VR, stuff like that. A popular area for us that’s like, you may not think just by looking at us is tech enabled companies. So these are companies that, that are not necessarily a technology company, but they’re very heavily dependent on technology to succeed. So I’ll give you an example right now. We have this client who’s like our top billing client right now. And they import chips and other technologies from Asia basically as their core business. They’re basically like import exporters. You’d think like, ooh, exciting, you know, startup for a big human. But they’re very heavily dependent on e-commerce right now. We’re doing a big e-commerce build for them. And they don’t have that expertise in-house because they’re not a tech company. So they’re more heavily dependent on us than even a tech company would be because they don’t even know how to hire the right CTO. And so we would probably have to talk talk deeper about how to identify companies like that when you think about reaching them or creating content that may appeal to them. But they are pretty huge for us. That’s interesting. [Andrew Safranko]: Yeah. I find just a real quick anecdote. [Steve Spurgat]: Companies like that, when you do it right, they actually sometimes get the most beautiful products out of it. They do. [Andrew Safranko]: You’ve got a blank slate to work with. Versus a bank where they’re like, oh, we have all our things already set up. You can’t touch our design, right? So when you’ve got that blank slate, I think like airlines, sometimes airlines are interesting to work with in that perspective. [Steve Spurgat]: Yeah. Yeah, especially when they’re smart enough to go outside and get experts opposed to trying to build an in-house team. They will eventually replace us with an in-house team, but to get that first build, I think is smart. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: In terms of other verticals that we work a lot with and that we’re kind of known for, FinTech is a big one. [Steve Spurgat]: Media is a big one. Travel is big, both historically and even somewhat currently. I mentioned this sort of bucket startups that have, you know, products that are basically offering a service where you’re logging in and you’re sort of doing something digital products. We’re more known for social media products, because you know, being big human incubated by the video app, as you probably know, with Ross coming up with that. Trivia was another big incubation project of ours that was like, you know, One of my favorite products of all time. I wish you would come back. [Michael Houck]: It was so fun. [Andrew Safranko]: It just might be. [Steve Spurgat]: Wow. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: You never know. Okay. Yes, that will be big news if that does happen. [Andrew Safranko]: Something in Cineworks. [Steve Spurgat]: But yeah, and frankly, that’s also like stuff that does well on social. It’s part of why, you know, obviously the Vine thing is why Russ got a much bigger following in 2025 from the Vine coin. And there are often people who reach out to us because they’re like, oh, you built Vine. It’s like a validation point for us. I got to cut you off for a second here. [Michael Houck]: I just realized that for some reason, and this did not recognize that I pay for zoom. So we’re on a free meeting right now. So it’s going to kick us off in a minute here. Okay. Dropping this link in the chat. This is a Google meet. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: You can just hop over there and keep going. Sorry about that. [Michael Houck]: Not sure what’s going on. [Steve Spurgat]: I’ll see you guys there in a second. Oh, I see it. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yes. [Michael Houck]: Okay, cool. Cool. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Super weird.