- Duration: 28 min
- Platform: meet
- Source: Read.ai 01JSPY0AVHDDPVFNSAXD8Z99RB (https://app.read.ai/analytics/meetings/01JSPY0AVHDDPVFNSAXD8Z99RB)
Transcript
[Michael Houck]: Yeah, we’ve been working pretty closely together for like a year now. He started out just managing our podcast and sort of, you know, proved himself in a lot of different ways. And so, um, yeah, he’s chief of staff now. [Alan Thomas]: Dude, he’s a super good guy. [Michael Houck]: You got a good person on your team. Yeah. I feel like, uh, I feel the same way. I feel very fortunate that he’s as dedicated and pumped about what we’re doing as he is because, um, he’s great. [Michael Houck]: What exactly are you guys doing? [Michael Houck]: I’m curious. It’s probably helpful, right? Yes, we do a few things. We have a ghost writing agency. We work with like 30 different startup founders and VCs. And then we have a creator network where we sort of match their content to big creators and their niche and amplify it with the creator’s reach and engagement. And then we have like a newsletter that goes out to 80,000 founders as well, which is just my newsletter. That’s kind of our top of funnel. And some other smaller things, too. It’s a holding company. Dude, that’s awesome, man. [Alan Thomas]: Yeah, I know a lot of the founders don’t have time to post for themselves, so they’ve got to outsource that a little bit. [Michael Houck]: They want to be funny and they want to be shitposty, so I hear you. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, there’s definitely a trend right now towards slightly unhinged LinkedIn, which is interesting, but it’s working well. [Alan Thomas]: That is crazy, man. [Michael Houck]: I was posting memes on LinkedIn last year and got some decent traction there, but it’s tough to manage so many platforms bro you know so I understand why people outsource that yeah so I mean would love to learn more about what you’ve done and sort of your background in general but high level what we’re looking for is trying to decide whether we want each writer to sort of be trained on how to do like meme level content meme marketing things like that or if we want to sort of bring someone in who’s an expert at that and who can sort of be the central point across our various clients and, you know, just part of the process. Like each, whenever idea inspiration strikes for one client, we create one, we send it to the writer, the writer incorporates it into that week’s like batch or whatever. So we’re trying to make that decision right now. So I figure it’s worth a chat to see if it’d be a fit. [Alan Thomas]: Sure, man. It’s tough to train people on making memes because humor is like, not everybody can be a standup comedian, right? And like making memes is kind of the digital version of that. I got started like out of college. I got hired by Gary Vaynerchuk. Chuck and did like two years over at that marketing agency. And dude, it was, it was definitely a good experience, but you know, you’re, you get assigned to a client and you have to make a certain amount of posts with that client every day. And at the end of the week, they see if your post performed, uh, and then they see if your posts did not perform. Uh, and if those don’t perform, you’re, you’re out of there pretty quickly. Uh, and if you do perform, they love you. Um, so that was cool. Uh, the most fun client I worked with over there was DraftKings. I’m a big sports guy. Um, so I just made a ton of different sports beams for them, man. And they’d be like, okay, who’s available on Sunday to watch Red Zone and then live tweet. And I was like, dude, are you serious? Like, of course, I’ll do that. Yeah, right. It was like, that was a lot of fun. Same thing with the NBA, anything with sports. So that was cool. And then after that, I transitioned more into like crypto and Web3. So, you know, worked with another, it is the same under the same umbrella. It was called VaynerNFT and then it was called Vayner3. And we just worked with a whole bunch of different clients who are launching NFT projects, that was like 2022. Because at that time, every single corporation was trying to launch an NFT project. [Michael Houck]: In 2022, we did a co-living house for a month with Coinbase, and another one with Polygon, another one with Solana, and they each paid us like 100k just to run this house. It was crazy, man. Crazy time. [Alan Thomas]: We had funny money back then, man. People had funny money. And then obviously, FTX collapsed, and a lot of Vayner three’s clientele was no longer interested in crypto basically within like a week. So they didn’t even need us anymore. So they actually laid off most of the team. I’d been there for like two years and unfortunately I was let go. They’re like, look, we love you. It’s not performance related, but we just don’t need a community meme crypto guy right now when the market is dead. I got a job a week later at a startup called Hashflow of decentralized exchange, ran their socials for about a year. Their office is down in Miami, so that was fun. It’s definitely a wild place to be. And then from there, what was that? [Michael Houck]: I went to college down there in Miami. It’s a fun place to live. [Alan Thomas]: It is fun. It is also kind of like Las Vegas, bro. It’s nonstop. You have to be ready to be doing things at all hours of the day. But really cool, man. I kind of fell in love with startups after that. And I like the asymmetrical upside. Working for a salary is fun, but potentially getting equity that’s worth a significant amount It’s also very fun. And then from there, I actually did some work for Polygon, did some work for Avalanche. I was basically a contractor all of 2023. And then I just got a job in November full-time for a company called Xi Games. And they’re an L3 and Arbitrum and really big into Web 2 gaming. And basically, my job for these people, it has now become quasi-BD. So I’ll help set up meetings for the bosses, help find leads for them about different games and publishers that want to launch their own platform. But I still am running their Twitter like every day like I just posted on on Zai like 20 minutes ago Like, you know the cheat code from GTA that like, you know If you fall it lets you like fall from the sky like instantly and it’s like if you know, you know Yeah, the memes are funny though because like even on my personal account Like I would say most people probably know me on Twitter for making memes You never know what’s gonna hit Thank you Sometimes you have a really good feeling about a meme and you post you’re like this is definitely gonna be a banger and it gets you know 10 likes and It’s sometimes the one that you spend the least amount of time on that you almost don’t post, you know, gets 10,000 likes. And it’s like, wow, that’s a really funny how that works. Um, so it is like the best way to go viral is like to pay attention to whatever like is trending, like obviously. So I call it newsjacking and crypto makes it way easier to do this because there’s something that’s breaking every single day. Um, and I literally just like create content around that because you could have an incredible post that actually is genuinely funny. Um, but if all, attention is in some other place it’s like that’s gonna be tough to like get traction so like the memes I put in like different buckets like if it’s like a slower day like you can have like just general industry specific niche memes like about crypto and business and finance and all that or you know there’s like the news jacking where it’s like you know Trump has done something whether it’s like tariffs and all that like that has opened up a whole fun ballgame that to meme about or another breaking new news story will come out whether it’s like an exchange being hacked or something was involved with the celebrity. I mean, some of these memes are wild. And that’s kind of what I’m focused on for the most part of my personal account. And I will bring that energy to brand accounts as well. Obviously, the brand accounts are a little bit different. It depends on what they allow you to get away with. Like, I’m pretty unhinged. Like, I’ll post whatever, as long as it’s not, like, racist, right? So yeah, that’s kind of what I’m… Yeah, that’s like the red line, dude. Like, anything besides that, it’s basically the green light. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re not going full Nick Quintas here. [Alan Thomas]: Right, right. Exactly. Twitter is a great platform, but there is a part of it that’s like, holy shit, what’s going on here? Right. So, yeah. Okay, cool. [Michael Houck]: I mean, look, I guess my next question would just sort of be, it seems like you’re super deep in the crypto world these days. Obviously, you’ve worked on sports stuff as well. It sounds like broader experience too with startups. Our clients are mostly founders who are building their personal brands as a way to grow their startup, basically. So as a result, the industries are super varied. You know, we have folks who’s building AI legal tech and we have folks who are doing cannabis and like, you know, a whole bunch of stuff. Right. So I want to get a sense of like, you know, are you comfortable sort of across a wide range like that of folks? Yeah, man, I can meme about anything. [Alan Thomas]: It’s just like a little bit of extra research about like what they want and like, do they want like specific memes about their industry? Like you also have to like ask yourself, like what’s the TAM of a meme, right? Like if you go too specific, I’m like, oh, I’m even about RWAs on the Arbitrum blockchain. You know, it’s like, holy shit, dude. Like there’s 10 people that are going to get the joke. [Michael Houck]: Those 10 people are going to love it, but it’s just 10 people. [Alan Thomas]: Right, exactly. [Alan Thomas]: It’s like, you’re going to think it’s hilarious, but you’re going to get 10 likes. So that’s why it’s like you kind of have to thread the needle a little bit of like, sure, like what’s funny is funny, dude. Like if a founder posts a funny tweet and it’s not specifically like related to their industry, that to me is still a win. Um, especially like with news shacking, how easy it is. Like, dude, I’ve had some of my most viral memes are like fake news where it’s like, Oh, like the president of El Salvador has banned Jim Cramer from entering the country. Um, you know, uh, Charles Hoskinson is dating ice spice. Uh, Trump has appointed, um, Brian Armstrong to be secretary of the treasury, but it’s a picture of Pitbull. Um, things like that, that just sort of like the fake news, like does pretty well. And then obviously the ones that you can invoke relatability from If you are in this space every day and are experiencing pain points and pitfalls and also successes, those emotions and feelings are probably being felt by a significant amount of people. And it’s interesting because right now, I don’t know how deep you are into crypto, but retail is not here. People think that retail is here. They’re not. And you can tell that by a variety of metrics. For example, YouTube subscriptions on crypto creators is low, even like for Twitter follows, it’s also very low. And it’s not like the creators are posting less, the audience just isn’t there, especially considering what it was like in 2021 and 2022. So like they are coming back eventually, slowly but surely, but it is a little more tricky to get traction now. And even I’ve noticed that. Dude, 2021 and 2020 were a crazy time. Cause you could basically post even like a mid meme and it could get a thousand likes. I’d be like, how, how is this doing so well? And it’s like, Oh, because there’s so many retail people here that are like, their level is more surface level humor. Right. Versus like people that are like day to day in the trenches, like through and through like crypto DGNs, like you need to work a little harder on the joke. Um, so it’s, it’s an interesting situation to be in right now and it’s going to be getting easier. I foresee over the, like the rest of this year, especially as Bitcoin starts getting over a hundred K again. Yeah. But yeah, dude, I’m pretty comfortable with memeing about most things. I would just always tell the founder that it’s like, look, if we go too specific, there is gonna be a cap for activity. So that’s like what I would leave that at. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I didn’t mean like, let’s go super niche because I agree with your comment about the TAM of the meme. We want big TAM memes, we want results, we want metrics to be, you know, super good for our clients more so than like being super niche. But I guess I just mean like, they will want some level of understanding about like their space, right? So like the legal tech, legal AI tech founder, for example, might want to post something that is a broad template, but like references something in the niche to some degree. So yeah, just want to make sure that it sounds like you feel comfortable sort of across the spectrum. Just Yeah, well, dude, also, like, I don’t use AI to make memes. [Alan Thomas]: But what I will do is be like, hey, chat GPT one, the paid version of chat GPT is amazing. I’ll be like, Hey, I am the social media manager for a CEO in the cannabis industry who is focusing on distribution of specific strains to whatever, I need 10 ideas that I can create memes on. They’re not really funny. They won’t give you a funny copy, but they can give you ideas that maybe will lead you to something that’s funny. But there is ways to do that. And even if you were going to train your team, I’d be like, hey, if you’re not using AI to generate ideas, you’re playing it on hard mode. It’s not going to give you the finished product. That’s where the skill comes in, but it definitely can help you on the starting point for sure. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Cool. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Okay. [Michael Houck]: I think we’re on the same page about that. Thanks. I feel exactly that way about basically all content that we’re putting out right now. So, okay. Give me a sense of like bandwidth then on your side, like if we were to move forward like, I don’t know whether to do this in terms of time or like number of memes per week, like what, what, what should the expectation be on my side? [Alan Thomas]: Probably number of memes would be easier I do have a full nine-to-five for Xi and I also am part of a digital uranium startup, which is a whole nother conversation So those are like the two the two big ones right now. It’s an RWA company. It’s pretty sick It’s called uranium digital. We just raised like six mil like two months ago So super exciting there have some runway to go build something cool And I kind of do I make uranium, but I would never have thought in a million years I’d be making memes about uranium like a year ago even two years ago, but here we are. And it is interesting, I know people hate hashtags, but if you’re really small on Twitter, and we can’t get verified on our meme account for whatever reason, our brand account can get verified, I don’t know what is going on, I think it’s just like, they’re like, eh. [Michael Houck]: Twitter’s weird, I got banned on Twitter, so it’s super weird. [Alan Thomas]: Dude, it is very strange, and then there’s not really a customer service area, you kind of have to know somebody, and then you probably have to bribe them, and that’s just kind of the way it works, unfortunately. Um, so yeah, dude, like I, I kind of have an idea how to meme about anything. Cause again, I’ll either use chat, GBT or either use Read.AI. Like when I was working at Vayner, if I didn’t understand a product and I was really trying to communicate to, you know, their audience, I would just go ahead and read it and be like, Oh, like what’s the Gillette Reddit? Like, what are these people talking about? Razors? What’s the ole Read.AI? Like, what are these people talking about? Skincare. And then you’re like, you see like, Oh, like these are like genuine concerns or genuine insights that you can turn into content that, you know, shocker performs because the audience relates to it. Um, So I can basically learn about any of these subjects. Uh, it’s just like, again, what is funny? And like, that is like a spectrum of like what you find funny versus what I find funny is like a tricky thing. Um, so it’s like sometimes you hit like a, you know, a higher upside because like just more people find it funny. And sometimes you might be too specific. That’s like the tricky thing about knowing what will perform. Like I can’t guarantee that Amy will perform, but I can guarantee that some names will perform for sure. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, for sure. Makes sense. So yeah, so I guess give me a sense then of like, if we’re looking at it in terms of number of memes, just based on your bandwidth, like let’s say we’re, we want to move forward and you’re excited about it too. [Alan Thomas]: What does that look like in terms of like the engagement? Sure. I can give you 10 to 15 really good memes a week. And then if you want more, it just takes time to want it. Cause if you use the same images and videos as everybody else, like that’s also like going to cap you to a certain extent. So I spend a decent amount of time surfing Pinterest and Read.AI and Instagram pages for great images and great videos. And Pinterest is amazing, dude. I would also, if you want to educate your team, tell them to go on Pinterest and just go look for different images. And it is a treasure trove of images and videos on there. I would not have expected that at all, actually. Most people don’t use it for that, but I do. You can literally search anything. And then what’s great about Pinterest is there’s tree of like, okay, when you click on an image, it also gives you like 100 related images to that. And if you click one of the related images, it gives you another hundred related images to that. And then it’s like, holy smokes, you can really keep going. And then you can pin things. So I like I like pin images and videos that I like, because I know that that tree will get me down a path that will give me like pretty solid and funny, like images and videos. That would definitely be a tip I would tell the team if you’re gonna like have them try and make memes. And like, you could roll the dice, like go ask them to make some memes and see how they do. I’m happy to teach them, but I’ve done this before and tried to teach other people to make memes, and they’re like, it’s tricky. It’s tricky. [Michael Houck]: You can learn the tactics, like you can learn how to use Pinterest like that, but you still have to be funny. [Alan Thomas]: Yeah, you and I know how to shoot a basketball, but we don’t go play in the NBA, right? So it’s a tricky one. Have you seen this tool? [Michael Houck]: I’m going to send it to you in the chat right now. This is my friend’s tool that he built. [Alan Thomas]: Um, we’ve been using this, we’ve been having, I know, I think is this, is his name Jason? Jason. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. Jason. Dude. [Alan Thomas]: Jason is a Chad bro. Bro. I’m subscribed to his newsletter or whatever this is. I pay him like $6 and 90 cents a month. Yeah. Yeah, dude. He, he gets it bro. Like he understands the trend. Um, you know, and I, I pay attention to what he does and I’m sure he pays attention to what I do sometimes too. Um, but he, he gets it bro. He understands the business of memes, like probably better than anybody, so. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, he wrote our newsletter way back in the day at my old startup, and then he’s sort of gone on to build this meme empire, which has just been awesome to watch. But, okay, so that sounds good. And then, I guess, any questions for me on my side about how we work or anything that’s top of mind for you? Yeah, I mean, what’s the easiest way to deliver these? [Alan Thomas]: Would it be like a Telegram chat? Would it be like an email? You know, what’s the, like, if I, these memes, like, where am I sending them to? [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I mean, ideal case on our side, I would probably add you to our slack. And we have like some mean channel where all the writers are in there, I’m in there, you’re in there. And as they come up, you’re like dropping them in there. And like tagging which client this is for. So the writer can go in and grab that specific one. [Alan Thomas]: But if you have a better system, definitely open to whatever works, man. That’s totally cool. And I’m not a snowflake to either. Like if you, if you don’t like any of them, just say like, Hey, this isn’t it. Um, and you can give like feedback. I would, I would again, caution a little bit, like we don’t know what will work. Uh, anybody that will tell you that they know what will, what will perform or what won’t perform, you know, like I was at Polygon for a little while too. And what I would do with them is like, I would give them like three options of like, Hey, this is what’s happening right now. We should post one of these three things. I recommend option a, if you don’t like option a, we have option B and option C. And you know, sometimes they listen to me and sometimes they wouldn’t, but they all, they all did pretty well. I mean, I was even, I was even giving memes to like Sandy, you know, I was like in a telegram chat with him and his like admin, like, Hey, I need some memes. Gotcha, bro. So I’ve kind of done this before for, for other founders. Yeah, man. So it depends on what’s content you guys want. Like if you guys are looking for 50 memes a month, like obviously that’s going to be more expensive than if you’re looking for 20 memes a month. You know, that’s just the other thing I would put out there. Okay, so then what what would pricing look like at like different like package levels basically sure, dude I mean like 20 memes a month I could probably do for like a thousand and then if you want like 40 plus memes a month We’re probably talking like between 2 to 3 K Like it depends if you guys want like 50 to 60 it obviously gets way more expensive because it takes more time for me to do it But if you want to do like a 40 to 45 mean package a month to do like 2 grand Okay Okay, that’s uh Okay. [Michael Houck]: That sounds fair. Um, let me chat with my partner, my co-founder on the agency. Um, and I can get back to you, but just to confirm, like any questions for me that I should answer before we would jump into this or anything like that. No, I feel pretty good. I mean, you know, I, I make memes every day. [Alan Thomas]: I’ve made memes every day since like, I was literally in college. I started an Instagram page and that’s what got me my job at Vayner. They didn’t give a shit about my degree, which is kind of hilarious. They’re like, Oh, this page is kind of funny. Like, you know how to make viral content. You know, you, you know, you want to come work for us. And I was like, oh, yeah, you don’t care about my GPA? [Michael Houck]: And they were like, no. College was the hardest thing for me, because I knew it was bullshit, and I still had to do it. I hate doing stuff like that. [Alan Thomas]: I did Epiphany like midway through sophomore year, and I was like, oh my god, I have like another two and a half years here. Like, I know that this game is completely bullshit. So I honestly focused less on school and focused more on Instagram. And I had like a three. I didn’t have an awful GPA, but I was aware that like, oh my gosh, if you don’t have any marketable or unique skills when you go out into the job world, you are going to not be in a good situation. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, unless your dad was a senior or something at some investment bank. [Alan Thomas]: I mean, dude, I went to school in North Carolina and my best friends went to school in High Point and some of those kids at High Point, they didn’t give a fuck because they were like, oh, my dad is the CEO of JP Morgan. I’m going to get a job no matter what. I’m like, that must be nice, bro. You know, I don’t have those connects right now. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, they’re just they’re just checking a box for four years. That’s right. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Right. Cool. [Michael Houck]: OK, well, I will I’ll chat with Blake, who’s my my co-founder of the agency. We will follow up. But I’d love to do some kind of test and we can we can figure it out from there. So I think it sounds great. [Alan Thomas]: Let’s do a one month deal. And if you’re happy, great. And if not, no worries. All good. And from there, we can talk about a little longer. Cool. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, that sounds good to me. I’ll come back to you with like amount that we’d want to do for that first month But I’m really glad been connected us because this this seems great dude Yeah, Ben is a Chad tell him I say hi and again, right you get you got a good one there So shout out to you. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Oh, yeah, man. [Michael Houck]: All right. Well, I’ll be in touch Good to good to meet and excited to test this out likewise. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Thanks, Michael. Please save up. Bye