- Duration: 36 min
- Platform: zoom
- Source: Read.ai 01JJ5C3C24ANMYA7H4XEHRGF63 (https://app.read.ai/analytics/meetings/01JJ5C3C24ANMYA7H4XEHRGF63)
Transcript
[Markowitz Marketing]: Hello, who are you? [Michael Houck]: Hey, Meghan? [Markowitz Marketing]: Elise, I help, yeah, I help Meghan with marketing. Great, good to meet you. Yeah, you as well. Excited to chat today. I know Meghan will be here. [Michael Houck]: She might be a few minutes late. Yeah, no, no problem. [Markowitz Marketing]: Matt honestly didn’t give me a ton of context, so I’m going into this cold on my end so. OK, yeah, so I can give you context. So Meghan and Matt know each other. And here comes Meghan from the Teal Fellowship program and I know and so Meghan obviously had Meghan. [Meghan Sharkus]: Hey hey. [Markowitz Marketing]: Yep, Michael’s some background, everything. And Meghan is the CEO and founder of ExpressionMed. And so we make CGM stickers and tapes mostly for diabetic, type one diabetics, but now we’re kind of expanding. So we are, one of our biggest revenue drivers is our email list, but we’re always looking kind of for new ways to expand even beyond like our current audience. And so this kind of seemed like a next step for us, but we were really curious about pricing and kind of like what it looks like, onboarding, all of those things. So he really wanted us to connect with you on all of the kind of operational things. [Michael Houck]: Yeah. And I guess I’m happy to give a little intro and background on myself. Meghan, great to meet. Thanks for hopping on. So, yeah. So on my end, let’s see, I’ve known Matt for a while now. We met when I was running my last company, which is called Launchpad. House. And we were, you know, backed by Andreessen and we had a venture fund. Before that, I was at Uber and Airbnb for a few years. And then more recently, Matt and I started working together on this new project. And so excited to chat about it and kind of, you know, see how we can help with the email list and with the newsletter. And yeah, just want to hear more about where you guys are at and what what you’re thinking too. Looks like that just jumped on as well. [Matthew DiMarcantonio]: Everyone, I’m switching my laptop. I’ll be on camera in a second. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Cool. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, so I guess I’ll throw it to you at least or Meghan to start. Just give me some context on the state of the email list. If we’re sending any sort of newsletter type content to them today and sort of what the goals would be for that going forward. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, at least you can start any nuggets they want to add at the end. [Markowitz Marketing]: OK. Yeah. So we right now actually are very lucky. We have a super productive email list. So we have probably like I need to look at the exact number, but a few tens of thousands of people and we have like an over 50% open rate. So we have a very healthy email list. And I think and Meghan correct me if I’m wrong, where we were kind of coming to you guys is we are venturing out into kind of a different market, which is just kind of casual CGM users, so people who are like health conscious and wear like glucose monitors just to make sure that their glucose isn’t spiking and all that like new craze stuff. So we’re kind of venturing out into that audience. It’s new for us and we have some kind of, you know, also separately within ExpressionMed, the current company, we have some competitors that we would love to like know who all of their, what all of their followers email lists are to kind of like test the waters there and like potentially to get new clients there. So I think it’s twofold across both of those. So growing email list and then potentially growing a new email list and content on the new email list. Does that make sense? That felt a little all over the place. So happy to reiterate. No, no, it makes total sense. [Michael Houck]: So just to make sure I have it right. So basically you guys have an email list. It’s pretty sizable, a couple of tens of thousands of people. [Meghan Sharkus]: I was going to say, I’m trying to log into Klaviyo from my side, but we definitely have well over 100,000 on our email list. I think, Elise, you may be looking at like, I purposely and to maintain our 50% open rate, we do a lot of segmentation to be like, oh, is this someone who like, if they purchased a year’s worth of tapes, we’re not gonna be emailing them three times a week. And so, but I think I’m like, usually don’t log the email list or to Klaviyo from my email. I usually log in from our customer service email, and so I can get exact numbers, but I think we’re definitely sending out two tens of thousands per send, but our net email list is much larger than our average send. Got it. That makes sense. [Michael Houck]: And then the content of those emails that we’re sending out, is it mostly just like marketing blasts, like trying to get people to convert and buy the product and things like that. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. [Meghan Sharkus]: OK. Cool. So that’s all in Klaviyo. [Michael Houck]: That makes sense. And then this sort of new expansion email list that hasn’t really been started that we’re sort of treating that as a separate thing. [Meghan Sharkus]: Am I reading that right? Yeah. So right now we have like, if you include Amazon, probably like 200, 300,000 customers that are type one diabetic. And that in the United States is like 1.5 million people, whereas the non-diabetics who are starting to use glucose monitors, it’s like hundreds of millions of people globally. And so we want to expand to that. There’s a lot of information-heavy intrigue going around, like people with PCOS, people with type 2 diabetes, people with a risk of type 2 diabetes, people who just wanna be healthy. And so there’s a lot of this like, information space that is not our bread and butter, that we’re not like deeply engaged with. Whereas with the type one diabetes community and outside of glucose monitors, we’ve been deeply engaged for like eight years. [Michael Houck]: Got it. Okay. Makes sense. I’m sure you know, but Sam from Levels is a friend. So I’ve dipped my toe into this space. I’ve kind of seen what he’s done in it. We had him on our podcast a little while ago too. [Meghan Sharkus]: So yeah, he’s a friend. This is definitely interesting. I’m like everyone who’s ever spoken to him like he saw Andre Bertram. Someone else Matt and I both know and he was like I have to jump on a call with Meghan, but then every time I reach out he never actually scheduled a call. So I’m like this is so weird. Such a weird. Fringe interact with the level. [Michael Houck]: He delegates his whole thing. You know it’s all. It’s all like a team of VAs doing everything scheduling wise and email and stuff for himself. He’s got his whole his whole system set up. But OK, so we have the type one list. You guys have been deep in that world for a long time. Over 100,000 people were sending out blasts to tens of thousands very frequently. And then this more getting healthy, broader demographic list that doesn’t really exist yet. But we want to go that direction. We want to build something there. And at least from what you said, it sounds like that’s where we want to focus like a newsletter rather than the type one list, which Am I hearing that right? [Markowitz Marketing]: As of right this moment, I feel like that could change over the course of this call, just depending on like pricing and like, you know, all of the different things you have going on. I do feel like we have, we’re in a good place with our current list. Of course we want to grow it. Um, but as far as. I don’t see a big content issue with the current one, um, that we couldn’t fill ourselves, but I, I don’t know, Meghan, correct me if I’m wrong. Like, I feel like the focus would eventually be on what we’re calling glucose diaries, this like other vertical. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, I think most of our help is needed on glucose diaries. We talked to the person who oversees our emails today and she wouldn’t be against. Ghostwriter help like in the sense like she can say like this is what Expression Med is doing. Here’s some customer highlights from Expression Med and if the if like the concept of the ghostwriting could give her like for this week. Here’s a ghost written blurb about the latest diabetes news at the latest Dexcom news that she can then pull from, we would definitely pay for that because then she wouldn’t have to be going and doing extra market research on a like week by week basis. So like Elise said, it depends on the pricing. Like if that’s like an add on, that is not like the price of an entire person. Like I wouldn’t hire an entire person to like do the weekly diabetes blurbs like I would to run the glucose diuretics email. If that makes sense. [Michael Houck]: That does make sense. Okay. And we can, we can structure it that way too. So, um, okay. So on the ghost writing side of things, um, basically if we wanted to do a weekly newsletter, glucose diaries for this broader demographic, that would be 3,495. So 3,500, um, a month. And you guys would have a dedicated writer from our team. Um, and I’ll give you some context on how we work and who our team is and things like that. But just since pricing was a concern, I’ll get that out, out front. If we wanted to add on something small like these blurbs for the type one list, we could probably add that on to depending on the frequency of them. It wouldn’t be anywhere near the price of another full full newsletter, so just be a smaller add on. As far as who we are and how we work, so so yeah, I introduced myself with Michael Houck. My sort of partner on the ghost writing side is Blake email. You’ve probably seen his his content. He’s even bigger audience than I do, but between Twitter and LinkedIn. And he works in the weeds with our writers. I also will review the content as well before we send it your way. Our process is super simple. We don’t put any time on your calendar unless you want to do interview style. Some people do, some people don’t. Our default is founders are busy. Let’s not take up their time. So we’d set up a shared Slack connect channel and basically every Monday we would send some topic ideas and some specific questions about those topics that we need your subject matter expertise on. We’re doing our own research, but we want it to be in your unique voice so. Our ask of you is basically just to respond with sort of a rambly voice note where we get the emotion, the intonation longer, the better, more detailed, the better, but will work with whatever you can give us. And then if we get that from you by the middle of the week, then we’ll get the content back to you by the end of the week. You can request revisions if you want as well. That’s totally fine. And we’ll get a few weeks ahead, so it’s not like a week-by-week scramble trying to get the issue ready by some deadline or anything like that. We’ll also handle full setup of the newsletter. That includes welcome sequences, any other automations. You guys seem like you know what you’re doing there, so maybe you can help out there if you want to. We want to make it in a certain way, but that’s just what we offer. And yeah, I mean, we’d set up one call at the beginning, sort of a kickoff call between me, and you guys and we just go deep on the voice and the formats and the content pillars and all that stuff on that call. You also fill out a form ahead of time to give us some kind of context on that before the call as well. [Meghan Sharkus]: We’d review it, but that’s it. It’s a pretty lightweight process. So in the with the concept of the Rambly voice note, so we would be picking the topic of the weekly. Newsletter or is it? It. So there would be no like, like, I’m finding like an industry relevant topic like that would be on our side. And then just the writing or how? Could you repeat that part again? I think my brain was like, I’ve had too many different calls today. No, all good switching cost fatigue is real. [Michael Houck]: I’m getting up. I’m gonna Can I pause for one minute? [Meghan Sharkus]: I’m getting a package and I’m just gonna get it through my window so I don’t have to run through the entire house later. I’m so sorry. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Sure. [Michael Houck]: No problem. We’ll take a pause. [Markowitz Marketing]: And two, if you could also go into the portion of where you get the leads from and the actual growing of the newsletter. I think that’s the part I’m more interested in is that aspect. Yeah, for sure. [Michael Houck]: I definitely want to make sure we have time for that. I want to save a block for that rather than just giving the quick and dirty version before Meghan pops back on. But yeah, we’ll go into that in detail and sort of also how that is fed into the newsletter and to what we do to validate the list and all that stuff. So yeah, we’ll cover all that. [Markowitz Marketing]: Okay. And then also are these, are there like separate offerings for those two things or it’s just the newsletter content and growth? What do you mean by separate offerings? Oh, there’s like, in my mind, it’s like two pieces. [Meghan Sharkus]: It’s like the growing of the newsletter and then it’s like the content for the newsletter or guys, Jen, like, because Matt was talking, you guys might have capabilities to, like, if we wanted to target, like, warm, like cold outreach to warmer leads, like people that follow competitors and things like that, like more on the growth side, that isn’t necessarily the writing side. Yep. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, let’s, let’s, I recommend that we finish the writing side first, and then we can dive into the growth side. So on the, oh, sorry, Meghan, your question right before you jumped in. Yeah, sorry, I got a package. I was like, oh, sorry. [Markowitz Marketing]: What did you get through your window? I want to know what you’re getting delivered through the window. [Meghan Sharkus]: I don’t even know, honestly. I’ve been like, I’ve been getting different things for like my desk or for, I have a trip next week. And so whenever I order things on Amazon, I’m just like, oh yeah, I’ll get those eventually. During meetings and I’m like, ah, opening the window. It’s convenient though. We love a first story window sometimes. Sometimes, right? Yeah, yeah. I’m like, is it kind of sussing us up? [Michael Houck]: Yeah, but it’s funny. Okay, so your last question about the writing side was, sorry, I’m blanking. What was it? [Meghan Sharkus]: Okay, it was about the nature of choosing the topics for the weekly- Right. Cause you were like, Oh, send us a voice memo. Was that context like only if we wanted to, or is that context of like, it is part of the process. So, okay. [Michael Houck]: So we, we will be doing research every week. We’ll have a bank of topics that we can pull from and we’ll want, you know, our idea will be, we’ll present a few topics to each week. You can choose one if you want. Um, you don’t have to, we can just pick one and write about it. That’s totally fine. Uh, it could be as hands-off as you want it to be. But what we find is that especially for a newsletter, you know, we want to build trust, we want to sort of, you know, give you guys a unique voice that’s going to be, you know, aligned with the brand voice and, and all that, but probably for this glucose diaries, probably have its own voice to some degree, too. And so the more that we get from you in terms of your unique subject matter knowledge, and also sort of just your intonation and the way that you’re speaking about it, that helps us craft that. It’s not required, of course, again, if you want to be totally hands off, you can be, but we find that it does does lead to more unique content if we’re getting something from you guys just about like the specific [Meghan Sharkus]: questions and topics that we’re presenting to you. I’m writing down notes. Okay, that makes sense. [Michael Houck]: So yeah, so as we would get started, you can let me know sort of, you know, how hands off or hands on, want to be with the with the content side, that’s totally fine. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, I think my thought is that I don’t think we’re going to make a hard decision on the ghostwriting on this call because we have some like human writer options where we’re just going to compare because there’s like there’s something to be said for like, ghostwriting and stuff where it’s like more hands off, like I’m using less of my manager hours and things like that. But then there’s something to be said for a person who might might be able to help us with other things and have that contextual oversight when doing emails and maybe touching social. So we’re still kind of in decision-making mode, which will probably happen maybe today, maybe tomorrow. We’re definitely not going to be slow with decisions, because we’re trying to do 800 things at once. But I’m glad we’re getting at least is laughing, because it’s true. You know it’s true. But yeah, definitely this definitely a lot of my questions and understanding the context, which I think is cool. Cool. [Michael Houck]: And I mean, for additional context, we also do do social media as well. We have, you know, again, myself and Blake between the two of us, we build audiences of 200,000 on social media and our writers have built their own audiences of various sizes as well. So if you guys want to do Twitter or LinkedIn or something like that, that’s something we can layer in as well and take off your hands. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, because for us with the we so we’re the the informational channel that we’re starting outside of expression med is called glucose diaries. And we’re like very tied to what we’re building out for branding and like the sharing of stories of people who are like actually like real time measuring their blood sugar. So that’s where I’m like, my like understanding of the difference between like a person and like this service like an in person in this service. I’m just trying to like wrap my hat around the difference in that on launch because I know I know a lot of people who have more like AI ghost righty newsletters and for them like if they had something about glucose it would be like broad information from the internet like you know did you know that this launched today for cgms did you know that this health food exists did you know this research study and this fact and all this stuff but how does that weave into some of core brand messaging of unique customer stories and unique stylizing choices that we’re adding to differentiate? This brand is definitely less established and less brought, I don’t know what the word is. The Expression Med brand is really simple. We communicate, here’s what’s launching, industry news. Like, here’s a customer story, like, it’s super basic. And then we’re trying to do something more like custom and unique with the glucose diaries. So I’m like, I’m not sure how that translates for how you guys run social media. Like, what input do you get from your clients for social? And, you know, what type of output do you see? [Michael Houck]: And process runs exactly the same way. If you want to be super involved and be doing content interviews with us, and then be a member of the team, we can do it that way. If you want to respond to prompts in Slack the same way, that’s totally fine too. If you want us to just, you know, do our own research and go deep on that and sort of be in your Slack and see what everyone else is talking about and give us access to whatever you want. You can do it that way too. One thing I want to mention is, you know, you said AI ghostwriting. We don’t use any AI. [Meghan Sharkus]: These are all real people. Okay, just ghostwriting, ghostwriting. All right, cool. I must be getting like all my meetings mixed up. That’s good. I’m glad we have fathom notes. Yeah, yeah. [Michael Houck]: No, no AI whatsoever. This is a person. [Meghan Sharkus]: I read them. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Good. [Meghan Sharkus]: Good. I’ll be like, what dumb questions did Meghan asked? Please give all answers. And then I’ll be like, Ah, yes, she asked this question. I don’t say dumb. I say like, what questions did Meghan asked during this call? And I’m like, Ah, yes, that’s where my uncertainties were resolved. [Michael Houck]: Yeah. But yeah, so this, it’d be one person, you know, I think some other ghostwriting agencies, they’ll throw your requests into a pool and whoever’s free sort of takes it. [Meghan Sharkus]: That’s not how we work. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: It’s one person. [Michael Houck]: Yeah. They’re a hundred percent dedicated to you. Um, and you know, there’ll be, you know, our goal is that you guys imprint your brand brain and your own brains onto them as quickly as possible. [Meghan Sharkus]: Super cool. Yeah. So I definitely, I definitely feel like I understand the offering there and then with Like, do you guys have a different pricing model if it’s email and social? And do you guys only do Twitter and LinkedIn? Or do you guys also touch like other social platforms? [Michael Houck]: Well, we primarily do Twitter and LinkedIn. If you wanted to do like, you know, I don’t know if you want to do like threads or sub stack, we could do that too. But if it’s more like the visual base, like the video stuff on Instagram or TikTok, if that stays not banned, then that’s that’s outside our wheelhouse. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, because we do have we do have specialists right now that do like more like photo video social, but I’m just curious like how how that goes and then At least you have any other questions about the writing or should we like move to questions? Okay, so that makes sense with writing the only thing we don’t know is like Pricing for like if we were to do I don’t think we would do LinkedIn diaries, we might do Twitter. So like with Twitter and email, is that like how do you guys price that? Yeah. [Michael Houck]: So it depends on the amount of content you would want on Twitter. If you want like a sort of a full account takeover where we’re doing everything from, you know, daily posts, responding to comments, seeking out thought leaders in the niche and engaging on their content. So we get some free impressions and followers from them, you know, sending DMs to people who engage with our stuff. If you want us to do full account takeover like that, that’s 3K a month. If you want us to do sort of just like, hey, we’ll post some content from the account and sort of develop the voice that way, then that would be 2K a month. And if we package that with a newsletter, excuse me, you’d get 10% off for both of them. [Meghan Sharkus]: So there’d be some discount there. Super cool, super cool. [Michael Houck]: Sorry, for context, I’ll send over a notion doc that has all this stuff written down. That is good. I was like, I’m like typing and thinking. I have to jump right at two. [Markowitz Marketing]: So I just want to make sure that we use the last seven minutes for the growth piece because I’m still unclear on how you guys do that. How is involved with that? Can we do it separately from the ghost writing? Do we have to do both? Yeah. [Michael Houck]: Okay, so you can do them separately 100%. The growth basically is meant to just blow up the email list very quickly. We can get extremely targeted. So the way we do this is basically we’ve built a database of over 200 million people’s emails and those are tagged based on their preferences on social media. So you can think about things like who they follow, what they engage with, what’s in their bio. We turn that all into structured data and it gives us a very you know, high fidelity interest level graph, sort of like you get from a Facebook ad, but directly in people’s inboxes. And so we can find out who the most likely people are to engage with the glucose diary content or with the other list content as well. And we can we can deliver them to you guys. And what we do is we sort of validate that those inboxes are real and active and not going to bounce in anything like that. We run them through some cold email campaigns on our side just to make sure that’s true. Unrelated to the brand. They don’t get, it’s not a touch point for your brand. We’re basically just pen testing their inbox. Once we do that, then we can add the list to the newsletter if it’s a newsletter, or I guess we could figure it out for the, if it’s not a newsletter, it would just to the email list that you guys already have set up. And then they would start receiving emails from you. And if we do the newsletter, we’d set up basically like a custom welcome sequence for cohort specifically of like the, you know, greatest hits topics that we want to get in front of them just to gauge their interest in our content going forward. They’ll receive that before they start receiving any other content from us. And if they meet some engagement criteria that we collaboratively set in those emails within some time period, then they will sort of graduate to the main list and the main newsletter and all that. So process-wide, that’s sort of how it works. [Meghan Sharkus]: Okay. Yeah. I think we’d be interested in that because our product is such a low cost per unit that with our competitors list or people we haven’t seen before, it’s very easy for us to give like a free tape or a steep discount for new customer acquisition. And that’s a huge goal for us in terms of growth. We have a pretty sticky, pun intended, I suppose. We have a very sticky product. Customers often come back for years. And so new customer acquisition. Yes. Thank you, Lisa. I’ll be here all day. So, yes, I think we’d be super interested in understanding the price points of that. We love like any new lead gen strategy since we’ve been exhausting some of our Facebook and Google efforts over eight years. You guys know the drill. Yeah, 100 percent. [Michael Houck]: So, OK, so we start a minimum of one thousand per month. And if we do that level It would be $1 per per lead. Basically, if we went up to 10,000 a month or more, the price drops by half the 50 cents. [Meghan Sharkus]: Okay, that’s good to know. I feel like we’re the type of people where we’re going to start with a small amount to learn the things we need to know, and then scale up as we can. And I really do think there’s a lot of opportunity with this given all of the new people like number of people who use glucose monitors year over year, according to Dexcom is like 40% growth, because more type twos are using it. Like it’s an insanely growing, a fast growing market. And the fact that we’re not capturing new customers as fast as we could, I feel like there’s just so much low hanging fruit slash opportunities we’ve been missing. So I think it’d be super exciting. [Markowitz Marketing]: And then when you get a thousand dollars, sorry, a dollar per lead, what does that mean exactly? Like just you hand us like a thousand leads and that’s a thousand dollars or is it like qualified leads? [Michael Houck]: Like what is that? People who have gone through our sort of like pen test cold email already. So we validated that they’re real active in boxes. And then also there are people who go through if we do the newsletter, for example, people who go through this welcome greatest hits type of sequence, and they meet our engagement criteria. If they don’t meet the engagement criteria, they’re automatically churned out, you guys aren’t charged for them, they don’t count against the total. I think that’s cool. Yeah, that’s awesome. [Markowitz Marketing]: One thing I worry about, and I know Meghan and I were talking about this is specifically to expression mad where we already have this very healthy email list and account is I don’t want to start bringing in all of these leads who then report us as spam. So what’s kind of what are the blocks there? Or like how can we make sure that doesn’t happen? Well, that’s that’s sort of the purpose of the the cold email sequences that we do, right? [Michael Houck]: One is to make sure that the emails aren’t going to bounce, which we already have confidence in before that. But just to double check and then two is, they’re getting some code email about this topic from you know, someone else who isn’t you guys necessarily if unless you want it to be some like similar domain or something like that. If they report that as spam, then you know, they won’t get included to you guys. [Meghan Sharkus]: I love that. So the first hit in their inbox is not from Expression Med and like the second hit in their inbox. Like it doesn’t come from the Expression Med Klaviyo account until they’ve been proven warm. [Michael Houck]: Yes, exactly. And one thing I would say is that, you know, what I’ve seen time and time again play out when we’ve done this, even before we were doing this, just within the newsletter world, is that the best way to keep someone sort of ready to convert and ready to become a big customer is to just get in their inbox all the time with content that where you guys are adding value instead of asking them to buy something. So that’s my pitch for the newsletter angle, basically. Yeah, no, I definitely was excited about that since Matt brought it up too, because we do do a lot of promo. So one thing we could do is hit them with the free or the heavy discount with the first email or something. And then after that, send them a couple of high value pieces and see if they keep reading and engaging. [Meghan Sharkus]: Really cool. Sweet. So I know Elise has to jump in a minute. So as a follow up, you’ll send pricing via email and then we can get back to you. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, sounds good. I’ll shoot over Notion with everything about the ghostwriting side. And we don’t have the growth side in I can send it separately in the email as well. [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah. And then Elise, I don’t know if you have like five to 10 anywhere on your calendar today, but if we could debrief and decide today, that would be sick. [Markowitz Marketing]: I totally do. Yeah. After literally after this next meeting I have open, so we’ll ping you. Separately, Matt and Mike, I’m just going to start playing Mike. Do you, I have like a bunch of different companies I feel like I could refer you guys to. Who should I like, who should, Who’s email should I use? [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: You. [Michael Houck]: Okay. Yeah. Just super connected. One note on the growth is that we do cap with clients at 20% month over month. [Matt DiMarcantonio]: So if like you have a hundred thousand lists, then that’d be 20,000 people a month is what we’d probably cap it at. The more frequently you send, you can push it beyond that. So for example, if you have great stats and you send seven days a week, you could actually go pretty substantially above that. But just putting that out there. [Meghan Sharkus]: No, I think we do three days a week right now. Correct me if I’m wrong. But I don’t 100% No, but I’m like 90% sure. Yeah, it’s like two, three, four or something around there. [Markowitz Marketing]: Like that, you can probably go above it. [Matt DiMarcantonio]: But usually when people want to go above that, we just recommend they start off at the 20% for a month. And that’s like, also, after do we go both? [Meghan Sharkus]: Yeah, yeah. Sweet. [Michael Houck]: At least we do we get to all your questions about the gross stuff too. I want to make sure we hit everything. You hit everything. Okay, perfect. Cool. I’ll send you an email over in a bit. I’ll let you guys go. Thank you so much. [Meghan Sharkus]: All right. Thank you so much. Bye. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Bye. [Meghan Sharkus]: Talk soon.