- Platform: meet
- Source: Read.ai 01JBWFFWDJATTCMME3CDJAZZ0V (via Ben Ornstein’s account, imported 2026-08-06)
Transcript
Ben Ornstein: Hey, Dan, how’s it going? Hey, Ben. It’s going well, man. Dan Rua: How are you doing? Ben Ornstein: I am doing well. Where are you based? Dan Rua: I’m in Gainesville, Florida, college town where University of Florida is based. Ben Ornstein: Love that. Nice. What about you? I am in a very random spot. I’m in Newark, Delaware. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Nice. Nice. Dan Rua: What’s the temperature like up there? Ben Ornstein: You know, not too bad. It’s still kind of warm. It’s mid fifties today a little cold, but tomorrow is going to be back up to like almost 80. So, Oh, geez. Okay. Yeah. So not, not cold yet, but soon it’ll, it’ll get there. Dan Rua: What is it like 95 by you? No, no, no, no. It’s been pretty nice. Uh, I don’t know. Ben Ornstein: Uh, low eighties, high seventies. It’s pretty good. Oh, that’s so nice. I’m jealous. Dan Rua: Yeah. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Yeah. Ben Ornstein: Well, um, yeah. Thanks so much for doing this call. Um, You probably have a tiny bit of context, but how much do you have for this goal? Hardly any so yeah, give me help. Okay. So yes, I work with a founder named Michael Houck. He has a newsletter called Houck’s Newsletter. Well, we rebranded it recently to Founding Journey. It’s a newsletter of, it was a peak 100,000 subscribers. It was a lot of founders, aspiring founders, investors, a lot of, that’s the audience. One of the things he wanted to create was a different resource for founders related to fundraising. And we figured what better way to do that than by actually speaking with founders themselves who have done it. So that’s what this call is about. We’ve done 75 plus of these, speaking with founders of all different stages, regions, industries. And yeah, i’ve got a preset list of questions here. They’re softball questions. Nothing you haven’t answered before or at least thought about um The recording here the video recording is used for nothing. It’s just for us I have the read ai guy in here because I turn this transcript into a text-based document Which then goes behind a paywall for the premium subscribers, which are you know founders and aspiring founders to get access to um, got it And and I do like to add that while no one other than the premium subscribers will see the actual content in here For all of the subscribers, which is over 60,000 each Saturday We we list which new case studies we add so you still get that exposure to you know, our entire email list. Yeah Yeah, do you have any questions I Guess I’m curious. Dan Rua: What like what is the what is the overall goal or purpose? When you’re creating a newsletter, it’s ultimately kind of the paywall kind of business that you’re building there? Ben Ornstein: Yeah, I mean, we’re working on a whole bunch of stuff. Michael has the founding journey kind of brand, which is the newsletter, the case studies. He does some advising on the side. And then the other thing, he has a startup called Megaphone, which is in the social space. So he’s got a whole, everyone’s on Twitter. For a big holding company doing a whole bunch of stuff. Dan Rua: Yeah. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Okay. Ben Ornstein: Nice. And yeah, with the goal of this is we really just want to provide resources for, for founders. And it’s been, we’ve gotten some really good stuff. Dan Rua: Super, super glad to help. Awesome. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Okay. Ben Ornstein: Well, again, this is prerecorded. This is, um, I can edit it. So if there’s anything you say that you’re like, ah, wait, I actually didn’t want to phrase that or afterward you’ll have, Oh, the other thing I want to mention, you get a chance to edit this. Um, I’ll send you a draft before it goes live. So you you can feel free to edit and all that kind of stuff. Perfect, perfect. Okay, cool. We’ll get going then. Dan Rua: All right, Dan, could you please briefly introduce yourself and your startup? Sure. My name is Dan Rua, CEO and founder of Admiral. Admiral is the visitor relationship management company. What is VRM? It’s largely like marketing automation or CRM built for media publishers. Such as cbssports.com or rottentomatoes.com or what have you. Yeah, that’s great. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: That’s great. Sorry. Yeah, that was good. Ben Ornstein: Yeah. Could you talk about a little bit about the fundraising journey? So this could be, you know, how many rounds you’ve raised the amounts in those rounds, you’re comfortable, but no pressure, obviously, to the valuations in those rounds. Dan Rua: And you know how long they took to close Sure, so Our founding a little background so, uh, I was computer engineer by training, uh Ultimately got into venture capital with startups. There was a silicon valley fund With tim draper that won the launch east coast draper fund So we launched that did two funds about 30 companies and then I launched the third fund of my own uh focus on the southeast us did another 10 companies there. One of the last companies I did was called Grooveshark in the music streaming space. And it was a bit of a phenomenon. It was the pioneer of music streaming before Spotify and others. And so it touched 100 million users, 120 employees. And so as it relates to Admiral’s story, when we sold off Grooveshark to the labels, we ended up spinning the core product team out. And at the time, At the time, Grooveshark was a bit of a known commodity. I was a bit of a known commodity, having been in venture. And so we were able to raise a seed round that was institutional seed. So we didn’t kind of do cats and dog angels. We had institutional seed out of the gates. Ultimately, we ended up raising over a couple tranches, about 7 million or so of seed. We grew on that over the years. Then earlier this year, we closed our Series A, which we also call our growth round, led by Harvard. That was combined about 19 million between equity and some venture debt on top. Ben Ornstein: Awesome. That’s awesome. When you were raising these rounds, what did you plan ahead of time to use the funding for? Dan Rua: In the early We kind of ran stealth for a period of time building our first MVP. Our company really started from a problem we noticed at Grooveshark where music enthusiasts were some of the earliest Adblock adopters and how that hit websites revenue. It also disrupted paywalls and things like that. It also broke data calls and so there was just millions of visitors surfing to websites that the websites didn’t even Realize it it didn’t show up in their analytics or anything And so our MVP was let’s just solve you know size and solve the ab lock losses topic first And so in the early days we were kind of stealth and just built that kind of a prototype of that That is what we got our first seed round funding to go do that. We then grew from there. We knew there was a much bigger thing going on. It wasn’t just about AdBlock. It was this bigger kind of privacy user empowerment wave that was reshaping the Internet’s business model. And that’s what grew us into this bigger thing we call visitor relationship management, which is everything along the visitor journey, whether it’s got to do with their AdBlocker or email address or subscription or donations or privacy consent. And so when you ask about use of funds, number one was to kind of take that MVP and build it out further and go to market with it to try to get to product market fit. And that was kind of those seed dollars. So that was kind of marching towards product market fit and building out the product even further, moving from just size and solve ad block losses to this broader visitor relationship management. And then I guess I forgot to mention our seed round we closed in 2016. And then we closed our growth round in 2024. In 2022, we added our first CRO. And the idea was we had gotten the product market fit, and now we want to turn it into a machine that sets us up for that growth round, right? To make it very repeatable that you put a dollar in and you generate more revenue. And so those early seed dollars were all meant to do that. It was take that first MVP to market, iterate on it, get yourself to product market fit, and then ultimately build a machine that you can then go raise a growth round for and create a lot of value. Ben Ornstein: Awesome. That’s great. When you were looking for investors, how did you decide which ones would be a good fit? Dan Rua: The first seed round, like I said, I think we were lucky that we were somewhat known and so we could do institutional seed instead of the odd angel. So I guess that was at least one of the decision points for us was what kind of investor. We had trust from past experience and kind of institutional funds that had a thesis on what they’re investing in, had a thesis on how they’re going to add value. And so we went to market for that. Actually, in the earliest days, I guess to go back to the very beginning, there was an opportunity for some matching funds. We were somewhat associated with the University of Florida. We actually have space in their accelerator and incubator, and they had some matching funds. And so the very first step was, could we raise $250,000? And there was a potential matching $250,000. And to do that. What worked out really nicely, we quickly got ourself into a million plus and that whole round ended up being two and a half million right then. And so again, focusing on institutional, because when you started to get into that scale of around, harder for individuals to really contribute at that level. We were lucky that Mosley Ventures out of Atlanta led around as an institutional fund. And we really had a kind of a who’s who list of Southeast seed institutions come in on the round. We also eventually, not in that very first tranche, but in a later tranche, also brought in a strategic, which was capital broadcasting out of Research Triangle, where they were a customer of ours. They were the company behind WRAL, which was one of the biggest media players in the Research Triangle area. And so they used our product and then realized how much value it was creating and asked if they could come in on the round. So we brought them in on the round. So that was some of the decision making for the seed round. When we went for the, well, I guess I didn’t even talk about, there was an in-between step. So between the seed round and the growth round, we wanted to try out this kind of SAS debt structure, right? There’s some of these SAS debt providers that will loan against your ARR. They’ll give you some multiple on ARR, non-dilutive. And it’s a really nice model because it is non-dilutive. As long as you have a good track record of ARR and ARR growth, then you can take down that capital and potentially grow the line as you get bigger and as your ARR gets bigger. So, we did that. We had a very competitive process. I think we had four or five SaaS debt firms. We were out at SaaSter. I remember it was a very hectic time, but ended up with a great partner, Bigfoot Capital out of Colorado came in. And that was about a two and a half million facility. And we ended up getting to a point, It worked just the way it was supposed to, which was non-dilutive, use that capital, keep growing ARR, which then set us up for the growth round and really got to a point where even as our ARR grew, we had now grown past that facility size. Some of the pros and cons of SaaS debt versus equity is SaaS debt can one more incremental growth, right? It’s very hard to double or triple your team size quickly with SaaS there, because you kind of have to grow ARR to access more of it. And so if you felt you had product market fit and you had the machine, and therefore you wanted to double or triple your team, then that’s more of an equity play. And so we decided to go ahead and go for the growth round, again, a very competitive process, really lucked into choosing a great partner there. Wayne Hunter is the managing partner of Harbert Growth. They led our round, and we closed it early this year. On the heels of closing that, again, that was about $13 million total investment. Then we could bring in some of the venture debt players. So we had, again, a competitive process there, multiple venture debt players coming on the backside of that, and we chose Bridge Bank. And so Bridge came in with 6 million on top of that. Ben Ornstein: So that was kind of the total 19 of equity in debt. Wow. Yeah, that's interesting. I've spoken again with 75 plus, only heard debt mentioned one or two times. It's not a model that many that I've spoken with have gone for, which is interesting. Dan Rua: Yeah. Again, the SAS debt is really nice, non-dilutive. They're not relying upon a venture participant. They are relying upon the repeatability of your ARR. But then when you close your growth round, there's a group of venture debt providers I mean, yes, they care about your AR growth, but one of the biggest parts of their risk management is the fact that you've just closed a quality equity round. And so they're kind of banking on that. And so we had them come in and in the process, you know, kind of took out the SAS debt, replaced it with the venture debt. Venture debt is a little less expensive. And so it works out again, nicely, non-dilutive, but also, you know, really, really great rates. Ben Ornstein: Yeah, absolutely. And I have a question here about like, how'd you get in touch with investors, but it was pretty much a network right at that point. Dan Rua: Yeah, and that seed round. Yeah, I had been investing enough across the southeast that I knew most of the players and so was able to start relationships there. Also did a couple kind of seed presentation And so one of the participants in the round was someone that I hadn't met before. That was Birchmere Ventures out of Pennsylvania. And Sean Amorati there, who has been a great, great partner all along. He actually, he built a company, sold it to LinkedIn and then separately was an operator at a media publisher. So ReadWriteWeb, which was a notable property. In kind of the tech and venture space for a while. He was involved with Rewrite Web, and so he already had a point of view on media publishers and problems to be solved. And so he came in as part of Birchmere, which was really nice. So yeah, you know, mostly players that I already knew, but then also some other folks came in just because they knew the category. Then as it related to the growth round, um, that was, uh, I mean, I did know the Harvard guys for a long time, but that was your typical, you know, kind of venture conferences sort of path. Um, for a long time, we weren't big enough for the growth players. And so whether it was venture Atlanta or Florida venture forum, um, each year, we would just kind of check in with each other. And that's one of the things I think with the growth investors and private equity guys is I think there's definitely value in, even if you're not raising in a given year, to just check in, say hello, see how their portfolio is doing, give them an update on what you're doing. And so by the time you get large enough for their sweet spot, then they already know about you. And as a matter of fact, they're kind of waiting for you to get to that And so when you get to that size, it's a productive discussion. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Yeah. Ben Ornstein: No, that makes a ton of sense. Um, if you're thinking about it like a funnel in the initial conversations that you had, or if there were any, if there was any cold outreach done or, or the pitch presentations, all of them combined, um, how, how many initial conversations did you have or how much did you reach out to? How many people did you reach out to? How many became first, second, third conversations, and then ultimately ending in investment drop numbers? Dan Rua: Yeah, that's tough. So in the seed round, it was a pretty high hit rate. I mean, probably 50% in relation to kind of the folks that we spoke to and ultimately came into the seed round. On the growth round, It was more about again, like kind of building relationships over time so that when we formally went to market, then you had a good result. Even then, I don't know, it's probably a Ten to one of kind of getting actively into kind of talking deal terms and that sort of thing. And so you just got to make sure you're I mean the nice thing is that the venture The venture events are very well Structured for that venture atlanta had a very solid, um kind of Speed dating kind of meeting, uh Scheduling system and so when you went to venture atlanta It wasn't just ad hoc trying to find somebody and meet in advance or whatever. There was actually a formal scheduling system that you could use to have very efficient meetings. And so, you know, at one venture Atlanta, I might have 24 meetings or 30 meetings or something like that. Ben Ornstein: That's awesome. Yeah, no, that's great. And, you know, when you were doing these pitches, what did you emphasize in the pitch? Dan Rua: For us, it was probably two main things. One is just kind of size of opportunity or the problem that's on really what's going on in our space is that the way the internet makes money the way the internet pays for itself is just getting massively disrupted right now so traditionally it's been about tracking people around the internet and shoot ads to them and that's how most websites have paid for themselves over the years um and because of this privacy user empowerment stuff it's actually kind of breaking that model Websites have to figure out how to create a one-to-one relationship with the visitor, whether that is an email relationship or a subscription or a donation, or hopefully they turn their ad blocker off or it's privacy consent choices. But really everything along that visitor journey is about building one-to-one relationships. And it just didn't exist in the media publisher space. It is traditional marketing automation. Right. If you think about that's what HubSpot does for a B2B website, it helps you build some relationship with the website visitor. And yet no media publisher uses HubSpot to talk to their visitors or uses Marketo or Salesforce or what have you. And so we went to build it. So I guess number one is just kind of the sheer scale of the disruption going on of like, how is the Internet going to pay for itself over the next decade? And when you have a problem that big, Then they're going to be billion dollar companies created on the other side of that disruption. The second thing that I think really nailed it for us and why we got competitive process is really how efficient we were from a SaaS metric standpoint. We were never a big burn company. I think because I had been on the investor It used to drive me nuts, the entrepreneurs that would burn 10 times as much to grow $1 million or something. And so I think from the beginning, we were very focused on the SaaS efficiency metrics, whether that was burn multiple or rule of 40 or rule of X. And so we just did really good there. We were well under one on burn multiple. We were over 100%. On Rule of X. From an NRR standpoint, we were over 130%. And so those efficiency measures just really stood out. Every investor we spoke to, that would usually raise an eyebrow. The combination of those metrics was pretty solid. Ben Ornstein: Yeah, I bet you loved Uber as a business then. Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s really great. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Yeah. Ben Ornstein: Did you do anything to drive urgency among investors to close the round? Dan Rua: So again, going back to seed, I don’t think we didn’t have to do anything artificial to drive urgency. I think we had enough interest that that was fairly normal. I think when I think about the growth round to drive urgency. I think probably just being transparent about the multiple conversations that were going on that we are running a process and there’s going to be an end to this process and we’re going to get funded and we’re going to go change the world. And so I think to the degree that any and thinks they can hang around the rim and not really dig deep, but just hang around the rim until some date-related motivation happens. I think you have to be careful of that. You can’t really do it at the 11th hour. You have to do it throughout the process of just communicating that you are running a process and it’s a very active process and you want to partner with that investor, but you’re also running a process that needs to get done. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Ben Ornstein: It’s all about leverage, right? I mean, you have to have the leverage and timing of getting that right. All of it. Dan Rua: What’s the biggest challenge that came up during your fundraising? UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Biggest challenge. Dan Rua: I think number one, people that innately understood the disruptive way that we’re describing. I don’t know if I call that a challenge. It’s just a big part of the screen, right? So we would screen out a lot of investors that just didn’t innately understand the disruption is underway in the business model of the internet. And so you could kind of quickly screen there and people might be confused and asking questions and you just have to kind of like, that’s all informing you that they’re not going to be a great investor. And so you can weed them out. I think once you get into the due diligence, then for us, we have a multi-module system, very much like a HubSpot, right? Nobody buys HubSpot all at once, right? They buy one module and then land and expand to turn on the rest of the modules. We have the exact same thing. And each of our modules are priced a little differently than each other. And so I think we had to spend a little extra time with our investors just kind of talking through the pricing model of each module, and why that pricing model made sense in the way the customer buys and in relation to the customer’s key value metric, right? Like in SaaS pricing philosophy, you’re supposed to really zero in on the customer’s key value metric, right? If seats isn’t the thing that the customer really thinks in their head is where the value is, then you need to be pricing on something different, or if traffic isn’t the right thing, right? And so for us, you know, some of those modules had different key value metrics, and, and therefore we had to price on them. And so there’s some education to be done with our investors about that. Ben Ornstein: Yeah, no, that’s, I can see that being, you know, a little difficult for some investors and just having to just tell them everything and explain why everything is a certain way. But also, as you definitely pointed out, you knew which investors you didn’t want immediately probably. You’re like, all right, they don’t get it. They don’t see the same vision as us. You’re like, cool. All right, we’ll go find someone else. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Yeah. Dan Rua: I mean, if you just remember, it’s less about the dollars and more about the value add that you’re adding to the team. And so if you start there, then you can fairly quickly figure out like who’s who’s going to be bringing value and who’s not. And so it helps you helps you screen. Yeah, I think the other piece is, you know, when I was on the investor side, one of my favorite sayings was, you know, like, don’t make the investor do the work, right? Like there’s a lot of times that an entrepreneur understands it innately. And so they will say things that they think are obvious, but the investor isn’t there yet. The investors looked at a thousand deals this year. And so as an entrepreneur, your job is to not make the VC do the work. Spend the time to educate them, talking them through how you think about it or what have you, so you can bring them along Because there’s just so many times where an entrepreneur thinks they’re getting the right answer because the investor is nodding their head, yes, but they’re not really getting it because you’re making leaps because you’re in the weeds and you know the details, but the investor is really just playing catch up and they’re nodding their head. Ben Ornstein: That makes a ton of sense. And you having that investor experience, you know exactly have the investment things, which is probably so huge. Dan Rua: I mean, it felt helpful. I mean, it definitely helped. So it wasn’t as stressful. It felt like I knew what the investor wants to hear, not in a sell them a bill of goods way. The investors have very legitimate things they want to hear and learn. And so my job to try to make it easy for them. Ben Ornstein: Definitely. Do you have any other unique or interesting stories related to fundraising that you haven’t mentioned yet? Dan Rua: I guess one I’ll share, and I think it just is a feather in the cap of Harvard, in that, you know, again, we had a competitive process, and we ended up choosing choosing to go with Harbert. And then another investor wanted to come in on the deal with Harbert. And in the process of herding cats on that, the second investor, the follower, started to try to chip at some of the terms to try to sweeten some of the And sometimes in venture circles, it’s just too easy for all investors to say, to just agree and be like, yeah, that’s not an unreasonable ask. Maybe if we could just improve on that or what have you. And so in some ways, it would have been easy for Harvard to try to behave in that way and say, sure, let’s bring those guys in on the deal. And yes, I know the deal is a little bit worse for you, but bringing them in in should be a plus. But, but Harvard stuck to their terms. And they said, No, if that follower doesn’t like the terms that we’ve agreed together, right, because we’re building a partnership, Harvard is building a partnership with the entrepreneur. And if that follower is going to try to change that deal that I did, that follower is not not right in this syndicate. And so I think that really said a lot about Harvard, I think there’s of investors that wouldn’t have done that. Even if they didn’t mandate it, they would have tried to influence me to just go with the flow. Wayne over at Harvard just said, listen, Dan, what do you want to do here? Harvard stands by their deals, and so what do you want to do? Anyway, I think that was an interesting story. And I think also just a really good story of the kind of investors you want around you. Ben Ornstein: Yeah, 100%. That’s an awesome story. Definitely. You definitely chose the right investor there. That’s awesome. Cool. You’ve already given some pretty awesome fundraising advice. Dan Rua: Is there any other advice you’d like to give other founders? Dan Rua: Let’s see. No, I think some of the stuff of don’t make investors do the math, I think be willing to educate and just understand that they’re seeing a thousand deals and so it’s your job to make it easy to understand. I think going back to how big this problem is and how that worked to our advantage, there’s a saying that I heard Tim Draper say before and it always stuck with me, you know, startups are so hard, like, no matter what you’re focused on, like, it’s going to be hard, it’s going to be a lot of work that you might as well choose something really big to go after, because it’s going to be hard either way. And so like, go after really big things. And so when I think about entrepreneurs, particularly if you’re considering, you know, kind of venture backed entrepreneurs, that just always sticks with me. Of you know, it’s going to be hard either way So make sure you’re going after something really big something that you wake up every morning fired up to go do something that you can Build a mission around right? Like our mission is saving the free internet one publisher at a time and so that is just You know, I wake up fired up every morning and the rest of our team does as well Uh, so that’s something that’s always stuck with me I love that. Ben Ornstein: That’s a great quote. And yeah, you might as well, right? It’s gonna be hard, go after something huge. Dan Rua: Yeah, definitely. Ben Ornstein: Who’s an investor you would recommend to other founders, that other founders work with? Dan Rua: Well, a couple I think that I’ve mentioned here, Harvard, Wayne Hunter has been great. So he’s more kind of, again, kind of growth round stage. If you’re talking seed, I think Sean Amorati at Benchmark has been a great partner. Again, we had a lot of good partners in that seed round, but if one stuck out, particularly for our industry, Sean, very knowledgeable in our industry and very willing to kind of roll up his sleeves and help. Ben Ornstein: So yeah, they’ve been great. Awesome. Are there any resources you would recommend to other founders, books, podcasts, newsletters, anything? Dan Rua: Well, number one, I would just encourage to be voracious, right? As consuming as much as possible. I remember on SaaS metrics, even though I had already dealt with them so much on the investing side, I still listen to podcasts and other things on the exact same metrics over and over because sometimes there’s like a nuance to a metric that you don’t even really understand why the metric matters or if the metric goes this direction, what it is telling you about your business. You know, plenty of, you can’t consume too much of that stuff. I guess a book that we ended up doing a book club on as a company, which I really enjoyed was called winning on purpose. So our customer success team, we actually call customer love. And it’s just, it’s just a reminder that in our business relationships matter, right? We’re the visitor relationship management company. And so relationships permeate our entire business. And so our customer success team as a customer love team, like we truly want success for our customers. And I stumbled onto this book actually referred by Matt Harris, who’s up at Bain Capital. And it was the guy that. Created net promoter score. Oh, cool. And he, you know, over the years had continued to research and he found some other factors that seemed to play out beyond just the score itself. And so he writes this book called Winning on Purpose, and he ended up using the term customer love in his book, which we love because we were the customer love team. And it was all about this idea that the companies that truly want the best for their customer, that find a way to align themselves with making good things happen for their customer, that they define success as good things happening for their customer, end up outperforming other companies that don’t define it in that way. So that sticks with us to this day. It permeates our culture from a customer love standpoint. It also relates back into when I was describing some of the module pricing and things like that. We are priced in a way that it makes sure we are aligned with the customer success. Like we only make money when they make money and it results in a very symbiotic relationship. So anyway, Winning On Purpose, I think is a great book, but there’s so many. Ben Ornstein: Yeah, those are my favorite businesses where if your client wins, you win. I mean, is there a better way to… It’s funny, we spoke with Scott Chisholm of Classy who was acquired by GoFundMe. And you are obviously not a non-profit, but it reminds me of such a similar thing because you align with the client. And not that many businesses do this. And it’s so basic. It’s like, if our clients win, we win, shouldn’t every business be like that? I mean, if possible. Yeah, I don’t know. Dan Rua: It also permeates just your culture and your decision making to where when you’re faced with some tough decision because the client has an issue or something, it gives you a North Star to resolve that. It isn’t just profit. It is, you know, we’re going to be okay if we take care of our customers. And so it short circuits what might otherwise be complicated pro and con analysis. Ben Ornstein: 100%, absolutely. And our last question here is, do you have any hot takes regarding the fundraising process? Dan Rua: Hot takes. I mean, I don’t know the hot take other than you just gotta bust your tail, right? You just gotta do it, put the time in, if you’ve built a good mission and a good company, it will play out, but it will only play out if you put in the effort. Like you definitely can’t wait for someone to come in and be your savior in general in life, right? Like nobody is looking out for you, but you, and so you just got to make sure you make it happen for yourself. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: I love that. Ben Ornstein: That’s a great way to end here. Yeah, Dan, thank you so much for the time. Been awesome. I think this is going to be a great one. I’m going to take about probably a week or so to kind of put this together. I may do it sooner. We’ll see. And again, I’ll send you a draft before it gets posted live and I have a chance to edit, review and when you give me the go ahead, we’ll post it live. Dan Rua: Super, super Ben. It’s good meeting you. Ben Ornstein: It’s great meeting you, Dan. Dan Rua: All right. See you. UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Thank you.