- Duration: 39 min
- Platform: zoom
- Source: Read.ai 01JABEEGAKZTQXABHTD7CANGD2 (https://app.read.ai/analytics/meetings/01JABEEGAKZTQXABHTD7CANGD2)
Transcript
[Alex Danilowicz]: Hey, Michael. You know, let’s hold you one second. It might be my audio that’s off. Yeah. Classic. Hey, how’s it going? [Michael Houck]: Hey, how you doing, man? [Alex Danilowicz]: Good. Good. Great to meet you. [Michael Houck]: Yeah. Good to meet. Looking forward to diving in here. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah. Yeah. It’s great to meet another founder. I’ve now read your newsletter because I get it. [Michael Houck]: Thanks. I appreciate that. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, I mean, it’s just it’s cool to meet somebody as into startups as as I am, I suppose. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. And so, again, appreciate I know we had some back and forth originally, like maybe two weeks ago over the support message. Now is just the time I’m totally here to help you with whatever you need to show you the product. Would love some feedback and exchange. Sounds like you’re building some UI for megaphone. [Michael Houck]: Is that Yeah, I mean, we have a couple of different things that we want to do design for, but right now I’m working with an agency. They basically deliver us one deliverable per week, and that deliverable can be something super small, or it can be like a whole flow, depending on what I ask them to do. But obviously, if I can take a four-figure line item off my P&L, that would be good, but I’m not a designer, I kind of know what things look good versus not good, but use Figma myself. So when I saw magic patterns, I was like, well, if I don’t need to learn Figma myself, maybe I don’t need the designer if I use something like this. That’s really what I’m trying to figure out. Can I replace my designer with the tool? That’s really it. [Alex Danilowicz]: Got it. Yeah. I mean, I guess that’d only be for you to determine. There are definitely companies that that use us like early stage startups that use us and they don’t have a designer because they don’t want to pay the 4k or whatever it is a month, right? I would say there’s also like the tangential use case of which is less of a high bar, which is using us to communicate to your designer, hey, I want to create our earnings dashboard. And you send them a magic patterns link or a screenshot that magic patterns created to visually communicate that idea. [Michael Houck]: Got it, that’s interesting. Yeah, that could be something we try. I feel like, I haven’t really had that problem of like needing to like the level of fidelity that I give them through text is usually enough for them to get me back something that I’m sure. If I’m spending the time on text, if I spend the same or less time generating the design like the mock up, basically that might be interesting too, but the real thing that would get me to like fully dive is like, if I invest the time, can I replace the need for the design? That’s really what I’m looking to figure out. So to answer your question, yes, this is primarily for Megaphone initially. They do do work for us for some of our other things as well. But the first sort of place I’d be looking to plug this in would be for Megaphone, for sure. [Alex Danilowicz]: Got it, sure. And we can treat the rest of the conversation with that’s the goal is replacing the design agency and saving you 4K. I’ll share my screen in a second. And I appreciate that I was just sharing a common use case to that we surprised me, honestly, is like, oh, they’re using us to visually communicate ideas, right? Cool. As I load this here, Michael, feel free to, um, it’s all collaborative and multiplayer. So you can just join me. I know you created a canvas originally, but then never import anything. I started a little bit, I can share my screen to Pop in here. [Michael Houck]: Sweet. I’m in there, too. [Alex Danilowicz]: Cool. Yeah, I see your cursor. Nice. You got a cool color. You got purple. I don’t know what I ended up as purple. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. [Alex Danilowicz]: Oh, well, I guess it doesn’t it doesn’t matter that we’re both purple because you can’t see your other color. So so a couple of things I just wanted to show you, because I think your initial question was like, how do I get my brand colors in there? Right. And there’s a couple of ways of doing that, which I’ll demonstrate here. So this first one over here that I’m moving, that’s what you created by on your own. I think you did like four updates and you you fed at the prompt. There is also this one right here was only one prompt. You can see it actually if you right click and click open editor. OK. Well, I guess it was technically two because I added a added chart. But, but you’ll see all I did was type creators earnings dashboard and it already spit out orange and you’re green. And the way I did that is if you go to the bottom and you click add new, sorry, the bottom of the bottom of what the bottom of Oh, you’re gonna have to exit out of the Oh, okay. Yeah. And then when you click on just like de select anything and click Add Okay. You’ll see some drop down options like HTML chats. And do you see megaphone brand now? I do. There’s three dots next to it as well. Yeah, yeah. So click, feel free to click the three dots. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Okay. [Alex Danilowicz]: You should now see like megaphone brand presets. The long story short is this is what we call a preset. And you can have as many presets as you want. And so before this call really quickly, I just Literally pretty much copy pasted your hex codes. And now this is applied to every generation by default. [Michael Houck]: Oh, that’s cool. And you have a little prompt in here. I see exactly. [Alex Danilowicz]: I mean, you know, stop me if I’m if I’m getting too into the weeds of AI. But all this is doing is adding a default prompt. So like now every prompt is like, hey, LLM, use, you know, FC7C3A, right? Got it. And of course this can be tweaked if you’d like right now or after the call. Let me know if you have like a brand defined more as like the primary color, secondary accent, and we can tweak that prompt to match that more. [Michael Houck]: Cool, yeah, I can play around with this a little bit after the call too. Maybe add in some Can I add more context into here of like, oh, you know, we round our corners by this amount or something like like stuff like that? Will that work too? [Alex Danilowicz]: Absolutely, yeah. You can see here I’ll do if you look at my screen, I have this pretty cool one called like Neo brutalism, which you’ll see I I even add like, you know, borders and shadows should be black and thick. I went crazy or like I give examples and I can add those for you, or you can probably base examples, but you’ll see if I do like a card with a button. The long story short is you can add as much as you want. I’m curious, Michael, because obviously it’s our goal. We’re like, a call is not required to figure out how to use your custom colors. How is your how is your brand defined today? [Michael Houck]: Like, where does that live? Oh, there’s a finger file. So we have like a, it’s not really a full, like my, actually my designer keeps asking me to like give them a week to build out a full like brand kit, you know, but we have like a, you know, here’s our color palette and there’s like little squares and stuff. And yeah, it’s not crazy built out because I push them to do features so much because it’s expensive. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. Get it. They’re like, let me take a week to do the brand filing. You’re like, yo, yo, let’s just do features. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, like, let’s do a new feature. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, yeah, no, I get it at my arm. When I was an employee at the first startup I worked at, we had a design agency. And it was just like, it’s like being billed by lawyers. You know, it’s like, please, I don’t want to talk about colors, just like design feature. I’ll choose the colors later. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. [Michael Houck]: I mean, we’re looking a good relationship with them and they treat us fairly and everything like that. But, you know, anything that doesn’t deliver value to users immediately is just like it’s hard and it’s hard pill to swallow for a bootstrap company, you know? [Alex Danilowicz]: Definitely, definitely, for sure. Well, cool. Well, on that note, you know, the way Magic Patterns works, you feed it into colors once. Of course, it takes some tweaking, right? Like, I wasn’t actually sure what your primary color was. I was just judging from your website and what I saw you prompt. So right here I said hey FC7 is the primary. You know, use it with black text, but obviously that could say whatever, right? [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I think how to use that makes sense to me now and I can. I’m going to play around. One thing that could be cool is if you have the Neo Brutalist. When I saw the example generated of the card with the button over there, it looks great and with the hover too. That’s cool. Would you mind sending me, if you’re comfortable doing so, sending me that prompt? Not because I’m going to take the style, but just because, like, I’ll see the different things that you note, and I’ll be like, all right, well, what would this look like for our brand? You know? [Alex Danilowicz]: Sure, no problem. Don’t worry, it’s not private or anything. I’ll add you to it so you, like, actually have access to it as well. One thing I’ll flag is, you know, magic patterns works under the hood where it’s all code, right? That’s what makes the design interactive versus stigma. That’s why when I see right here, I have like the little interactivity mode toggled. Yeah, right. It’s flat. But then when I toggle into interactivity, I actually get it. So like all the The code under the hood is using Tailwind. It’s like a styling system. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it or familiar with it. So if you ever define like a Tailwind config, you could literally like copy paste in that Tailwind config, and then it’ll be even more deterministic. Got it. [Michael Houck]: I guess the next question would be, you know, we have a lot of screens built out already in the Figma file that we use for the project. If I export a part of that and drop it into Magic Patterns, can Magic Patterns extract the information that it would need to build one of these default prompts from that? So I put the picture in and it’s like, all right, oh, they like to use borders that are this color and they like this thickness on their borders and here’s how much padding they have between different types of elements of this type. Can it learn that from a picture, from an image? [Alex Danilowicz]: So the short answer is no right now, but that’s a really interesting idea because I haven’t considered like extracting from an image. You can, to be clear, which I think you’ve tried, but you can upload an image. We can do so together right now if you’d like and say like recreate this, right? Like I’d say our image functionality is mainly recreate this. Of course, you can still so if I click here, I can chat with it and be like, you know, what colors are you using? Just tell me the colors. And extract it that way, right? It’s just like any other chat. Although I will say like, that we’re very much prompted the architecture is like create me UI, right? But you’ll see here, it extracted the colors for me. So you can try that. The short answer is it’s not like that’s an that’s a kind of a workaround, not like a direct feature. I will share one other method, which is how I actually got these guys in here. So you may recognize like this green button, and this card, we have a Chrome extension. So So if we go to like megaphone, which by the way, I love the name. We chose magic patterns because it was only $10 we bought it. [Michael Houck]: That's great. Yeah, we didn't go for the dot com. Sometimes I regret it. But you know, it is what it is. [Alex Danilowicz]: I think it's the type of thing where like when it explodes, and it's everyone knows a megaphone is then you can buy the dot com, right? It's like notion they have so within now they own the.com because they're like, I'm doing a dollar company, right? [Michael Houck]: At my last startup, we ended up buying a .com for $250K. And it was worth it. But yeah, that was a big decision for sure. And I wouldn’t do that with a bootstrap company at this stage. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, yeah. It’s all relative, right? So we have this Chrome extension, which is free, easy to download. Cool. Have you tried it yet? [Michael Houck]: I haven’t tried it, but I haven’t installed. [Alex Danilowicz]: Okay, cool. I mean, basically, it’s just another way of deterministically grabbing stuff. So unfortunately, like we can’t grab from Figma. But it’s let’s say you already have like, a version on localhost, or your mega, you’re like your developer environment, or your website today, right? Like I want to edit this card, I can grab it. You’ll see I already grabbed a copy of it here and imported it. And then I can select both of these and be like, you know, hey, using this button and card, combine them to give me a different testimonial. Or design, something like that. [Alex Danilowicz]: So there’s a way of like basically you can build components off of each other and you kind of import like your existing components. [Michael Houck]: Got it. Interesting. Yeah, I think sometimes my engineers don’t make the actual site look quite as good as the Figma. Classic problem. And so. I mean, I guess I guess we can make it work. It’s not like it’s that far. It’s like little things. Yeah. Let me get a star rating, a photo. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah. I mean, all I did was just type, you know, give me a different testimonial card design, but you’ll see it use the green and it use the orange. Right. It’s you. Using your context because we referenced it. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, it’s cool. It’s very cool. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah. And I mean, and I’ll caveat Michael, right? Like the reason I think the reason Figma and code don’t match is because they’re at the end of the day, they’re like totally different things, right? Like Figma is its own data representation versus code is code. And so the reason we magic patterns as code is to try and get it one more one to one on actually what it would look like, right? Theoretically, like your engineers, and I’m happy to chat with them to learn how their codebase is set up, but like, this is ready to go, like to copy paste. [Michael Houck]: Oh, I see what you’re saying. Oh, that’s cool. I didn’t realize that was, I didn’t realize it was that, that level done. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, well, I mean, I’ll caveat with like, your engineer might be like, oh, we don’t use this star icon, right? Like, we don’t use Lucid React, our icons are different, right? There’s minor stuff like that, but in reality, like, that takes 10 seconds to replace, right? [Michael Houck]: And it seems like- It’s also included in the default prompt for the page in Magic Patterns, too. [Alex Danilowicz]: Exactly, yeah, yeah. And also, right, like, I’m using your direct hex code. Sorry, I zoomed in too much here, but whatever. Code, right? If you do use tailwind, which is again, just like a styling system, and you were to tell me like, Hey, primary is orange, we can set that up. So then it’s like, text is like he would say like orange here instead. [Michael Houck]: Got it. Got it. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Okay. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah. And it uses your orange right now it’s going to use the default orange, but well, the default orange that doesn’t exist because I need to add Yeah. Anyway, yeah, what else? Anything else I can help answer? I mean, I appreciate you sharing like, right, the primary goal is to replace your your designer. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I guess I’m just thinking like, what that would, like what I what would need to be true for that to happen. I think the number one thing is being able to easily of like how we do design, like our little design system into the default prompt, which doesn’t sound like it’d be that hard. The second thing would be like how correct it can get. If I give it a prompt that’s like a good prompt, if I like write a good prompt, detailed, thorough, will it get me to something that I can just paste over to my Not code-wise, but just image-wise, if it’s just pasted over to my engineers and they can start building it. So like, I guess, yeah. And do you guys have any sort of like, like materials, like guides of like, oh, if you want to move the button from this to this, you’re running into this error, like here’s what to, here’s what to do. I don’t know how responsive it’s going to be as I start telling it to like make small changes on pages. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, um, we do have like a prompting that we’ve probably seen it. It’s a very short prompting guide. I mean, in reality, like nine times out of 10, if you tell it move the button to the left, don’t move to the left. I’d say we’re where we mainly help customers the most is like getting their initial context in. Right. And then that’s, and to be honest, we’re doing a lot of work on like improving the onboarding experience, so that it’s not not clear and requires a call to do it. I guess on that note, I would love if possible, do you mind showing me how your Figma is set up today? What kind of atomic level components are we dealing with? [Michael Houck]: I don’t think it’s too crazy complex. Here, I’ll share my… Oh, actually it says I cannot start screen sharing while the other participant is screen sharing. [Alex Danilowicz]: Oh, classic. How about now? [Michael Houck]: Uh, yep. We’re good now. Okay. So this is our Figma. Um, but on a more recent stuff, um, Oh, this is what they’re working on right now. Let’s go back to, uh, what’s a good thing. Settings pages. [Alex Danilowicz]: Okay. [Michael Houck]: Here’s this is our referrals page. Um, So there’s like this sidebar over here, there’s like this kind of header section where we rotate banners, and then there’s like informational cards of different types. And we have both obviously mobile and desktop for that. [Alex Danilowicz]: Got it, and then like, do you guys, oh, can you go to the components tab for me? [Michael Houck]: Yeah, sorry, I’m not a Figma expert. [Alex Danilowicz]: Oh, no worries, no, no, no worries, right? And then right, at this, because like, these are like the atomic level things that build up that page, right? So theoretically, if we get this stuff into magic patterns, and it’s Oh, I’ve never I’ve never used this page. [Michael Houck]: So I don’t really know what’s in here. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, this is like, I’m sure there’s where your designers when they want to, like, grab a card, they look at like all the you can think of them as like the atoms, right to build the molecules. Or like the organisms. [Michael Houck]: I think some of this stuff is outdated. [Alex Danilowicz]: How much of this exists in code, Michael? I know you said it’s not always one-to-one, but do you guys have a live product yet? Does that page exist? [Michael Houck]: The referrals page, we’re building it right now, but all this stuff, like this broadcast tab, for example, this exists. To what it’s like here. Oh, okay. We have, yeah, anything like we have a page for groups, a bunch of other stuff to earnings. So all similar sort of dashboard pages like this. And then there’s a settings page that has the various flows. There’s a flow to share a post with our network. Let me see if I can find a better, representation of that. Yeah, like the new broadcast flow. So people fill out information about what they want to share. [Alex Danilowicz]: Got it. And so if I am sorry, I was trying to sign up right now. Because what I can do after this call is just import some stuff from that broadcast page. They’re saying user is not authenticated. I don’t know if you’re able to Oh, maybe here we go. [Michael Houck]: You’re signing up right now. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, Megaphone. Will it give me access or do I need special? [Michael Houck]: No, you should be able to sign up. Okay, cool, cool. If you’re not able to do that, it’s a bug. [Alex Danilowicz]: I think I accidentally won a free case. I like hit continue and then it didn’t let me. [Alex Danilowicz]: There is already a user with the provided email. Okay. [Michael Houck]: Maybe you went to sign up when we were first chatting. [Alex Danilowicz]: Maybe. Let’s see. Old password was never set. Log out and try to log in again. Here I’ll use my personal email. [Michael Houck]: Oh, that’s weird. Okay. So you should be redirected to onboarding flow if you never set a password. Let me make a note of that. What email did you use? [Alex Danilowicz]: Alex at magicpatterns.com. Okay. [Michael Houck]: I’ll flag that to the engineers. [Alex Danilowicz]: No worries. That’s why we do it, right? I get it as a fellow founder. Okay. Add your account. Account URL. Is this like a social media account or? [Michael Houck]: Yeah. So LinkedIn or X. [Alex Danilowicz]: Okay. Cool. [Alex Danilowicz]: These are the best type of calls. We use each other’s products. [Michael Houck]: Well, you might not be able to make it all the way through onboarding because there’s a payment gate before you would. [Alex Danilowicz]: Oh, got it. No worries. I get that. What I was trying to do is just I wanted to go to the broadcast page and then I can extract all the components for you and like plop them into your canvas as like, because your original question was, how do I get my existing designs from figma into magic patterns? And really the flow is like taking it from a website into magic patterns, because it’s like code to code. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, so I guess it’s like the reason I’d wanted and maybe maybe it wouldn’t be beneficial to do this. But like, the reason I’d want to do that is so that if I generate something new in magic patterns, It already has the context of what the site is is like, And I guess. I get it doesn’t really take that into account. It really just takes into account what’s in the prompt and then any specific references that I like mentioned, right? [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, although sorry, what do you mean by? I view them as the same thing. What do you mean by it doesn’t do? [Michael Houck]: Right, so I guess in my head like, In my head, the the ideal is I have all my components for my Figma file, right? I know we have to go through the web, but my ideal experience, I have my Figma file and the sort of AI, it wouldn’t be an agent, but the AI system has context on all of those screens that are in that Figma file. And I can create a new screen to do this other thing. And it automatically takes into account, hey, well, this is gonna be in the same app. So it needs to be the same style. And so it takes in that context for the other screens, just builds a new screen in the same style as those other screens. That’s like ideal scenario. And so what I’m wondering is like, my initial thought was if I import all of the content from Figma or the website, I guess, into Magic Patterns, will that have any impact on it knowing sort of what I want when I generate new components? [Alex Danilowicz]: Yes, if you reference them. So going back, this was just an import using the Chrome extension. This was an import using the Chrome extension. And so now if I select these two, see how notice at the bottom of my screen I’m selecting? I can be like, I don’t know, what do you want to create? [Michael Houck]: for people to share posts with their friends in a private group. [Alex Danilowicz]: And so that is using like those components to construct this. So does that answer your question? So like, it’s not like them being on the automatically adds it like you still have to select the references. [Michael Houck]: Got it. So if I select references to like entire pages, so instead of like a component or card, if if yeah, if the component is like a screenshot of an entire page. Will that work? [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, we can. So let’s do the same thing. A page to sorry, I’m forgetting what you said. Private group to message. Message, friends, like, [Michael Houck]: Yeah, like, since I can’t take the Figma files directly, what I’m wondering is if I set up like a, I don’t know, like a, like a local host page or like a private page on the website, I guess. And I just host like screenshots of the Figma files. If I then import those screenshots of the Figma files via the Chrome extension into MagicPowder, the system that way, then I use those imported screenshots as the references. Will it take into account every detail in those imported screenshots or will it like kind of make a jumbled mess because the screenshot is not of one specific thing, it’s of like a whole page? [Alex Danilowicz]: I got it. So a couple of things. So if you were just using a screenshot, there would be no need to put it like on localhost or like a private URL on the website. Because like, if I have a let’s say I have a screenshot of a button, I can still just upload that and be like, recreate this button. [Michael Houck]: Okay, so if I export something from Figma, I can just upload it like that, basically. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, you can screenshots, you can take pictures of Figma and say, recreate this button, and we’ll see what we’re gonna get. Right. But you’ll see how like, slightly off, like the green is slightly off and like for some reason it decided to round it. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, but I can I can then follow up with like more prompts to fix. [Alex Danilowicz]: You can totally totally like and I can just show you like, you know, don’t round it. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I think the number the number one thing is like if I import a screenshot or like an exported Figma file of a whole page, right? Like, oh, if I if I import the broadcast tab as a screenshot here. And then I say, create a new page for private groups in the style of this screenshot. Will it know what to do to the point where I could then just add more like follow-up prompts to optimize it or would it not know what to do? [Alex Danilowicz]: It would be, I mean, the short answer is the bigger, the worse it is. If you upload an entire screenshot, I’m going to pretend this is your, this is your Figma. Well, this page isn’t even that gnarly. You get the idea. You know, if I upload like this screenshot, it’s not gonna be good. [Alex Danilowicz]: But if you use the extension to grab like sections of it, or like grab your sidebar, grab one, one section, the sidebar, one section, the chart, one section, the hero, then it’ll just be much more like deterministic, right? [Michael Houck]: Yeah, I think in that scenario, I’m still I’m still the one who’s like, putting the thought into designing the page and be like, Oh, yeah, over here, rather than the AI sort of like, taking a wheel, you know, for [Alex Danilowicz]: sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate that feedback. I understand you’re basically saying like, Hey, man, the dream is just I take a I upload the whole thing. [UNKNOWN_SPEAKER]: Yeah. [Alex Danilowicz]: I’m just being real with you. Like, You can try it and I’m happy to try it for you too. If you want to, I don’t know if you want to give me access or whatever, but the bigger, like the worst is going to be right. And like the reason we, you can, you can do screenshots always, no matter what we just use the Chrome extension for it to be even more deterministic. Right. Cause the code extension is like grabbing the underlying code, like the exact hex color. [Michael Houck]: I think that my sort of, not issue, but my, the reason I’m more excited about the screenshots is because, as I said, the engineers don’t do it exactly like we have in the Figma. So if I want to keep that level of quality in the designs, I’d want it to come from the screenshotting Figmas. So, and also the extension sounds like more work. [Alex Danilowicz]: Totally, totally. I get that. Dude, that feedback riding down and literally immediately after this call, I’m gonna share it with my co-founder. I appreciate you saying that directly. Yeah. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, but no, I’m gonna play around with it. I’ll try both methods. I’ll try with big screenshots and see how good I can get it and how long it takes me to get to a page that I’m happy with. And I’ll also try it with like putting the thought into it and trying it with the different components via the extension, see how long that takes me. And if either one of those methods gets me to a place where I feel like, okay, this is fast enough where I’m gaining time versus the money that I’m spending on the designer, then I’ll probably move forward with it. So I can let you know how that goes. I’ll probably try it over the weekend, this weekend. And yeah, I can go from there. [Alex Danilowicz]: For sure, man. Cool. I’m around. So hit me up on the Chris chat or email or whatever you need. The very, very last thing I’ll say is there’s some different options here where like, ML is like the most basic and Chakra comes a little bit more styled. Do you know what you’re using internally for your code? [Michael Houck]: I’ve never heard of any of those other things. I don’t know what Shad Shadson is or I see you’re using material UI. [Alex Danilowicz]: It looks like the way to think about it is your website has like an underlying baked in styling that your engineers use. They happen to use like something called material UI. Chakra is like another one that uses like some baked in styling that looks like very similar to material UI. That’s all. [Michael Houck]: Got it. Yeah, I wouldn’t know. [Alex Danilowicz]: Yeah, no worries. I’m just sharing in case you play around these options like that is what that is. We need to make it more clear we we originally changed these names where they were like, basic style, black and white. And then a bunch of people who who know what they are. We’re like, why the hell did you change it? It’s you have fossicated it. Yeah. [Michael Houck]: That’s cool. Yeah, no. All good. I’ll probably just use HTML, I guess. Or should I use the chakra? I don’t know. [Alex Danilowicz]: You can compare the two and then see which one you like better, basically, which one’s more more similar to your taste. So cool, man. I appreciate it. Sorry, we went like five minutes over. Great to meet another founder. [Michael Houck]: Yeah, man. Good to meet. I’m excited to play around more. And I’ll let you know how it goes where we end up. [Alex Danilowicz]: Cool. Awesome. All right. Take care.